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> We may criticise our society in this forum and not be arrested by thugs. In the US because we have constitutional freedom of speech. But plenty of people in

> We may criticise our society in this forum and not be arrested by thugs. In the US because we have constitutional freedom of speech. But plenty of people in 'freedom-loving liberal democracies' are arrested for criticizing their societies. Unless you think the UK and Germany are authoritarian? Besides, there are things we cannot even criticize in this forum. > That should be evidence enough that for 80 years since the last world war we've maintained an alliance of ideals that were worth fighting for. What alliance of ideals? What are the ideals? Other than maintaining the european domination of the world? > 80 years ago people chose to make the "ultimate sacrifice" by giving their lives. What? You sound like the morons that think we invade iraq to bring freedom and democracy.

nonrandomstring 3y ago
> In the US because we have constitutional freedom of speech. In the UK we recently lost a lot of fundamental freedoms. Our current Tory party are spiteful and corrupt. > Unless you think the UK and Germany are authoritarian? There are extremist authoritarians everywhere. That was my point in the original post. And since they are essentially anti-democratic I think it's fair to label them as traitors and "enemies within". > Besides, there are things we cannot even criticise in this forum. We know that. Ycombinator has owners and a clear agenda. The punishment is being down-voted and made invisible. But there are ways to challenge entrenched ideas here and drag difficult topics out into the sunlight. > What are the ideals? Human rights. Particularly freedom of speech. > Other than maintaining the European domination of the world? I don't think it's fair to equate those things. I'm well aware of historical hegemony, That torch passed to the USA in the last century. > What? You sound like the morons that think we invade Iraq to bring freedom and democracy. Oh dear. I don't know where to start with all that. Iraq was an offensive resource war waged by the US to secure oil, with the side effect of toppling a disobedient puppet and assuaging the egos of two second rate Western leaders. That's not even debatable now. But to confuse that with the defeat of Nazism and Fascism in a world war in which 80-100 million people died shows an astonishingly poor grasp of history and politics.
- simpletone 3y ago
  > Human rights. Particularly freedom of speech. Neither human rights and especially freedom of speech was a product of 'liberal freedom loving democracies'. > That torch passed to the USA in the last century. America is a european nation. Founded by europeans and populated by europeans. > But to confuse that with the defeat of Nazism and Fascism in a world war in which 80-100 million people died shows an astonishingly poor grasp of history and politics. You forget most americans didn't want to defeat 'the nazis' or 'fascism'. Like every war we got involved in, it was against the will of the people. Besides, nazism and fascism was defeated by bigger nazis and bigger fascists. No serious person thinks the US, british empire or soviet union were any better than germany, italy and japan.
  - nonrandomstring 3y ago
    I'm curious what glorious civilisation could ever meet your standards of approval?
    - simpletone 3y ago
      None. That's my point.

nonrandomstring 3y ago

> In the US because we have constitutional freedom of speech. In the UK we recently lost a lot of fundamental freedoms. Our current Tory party are spiteful and corrupt. > Unless you think the UK and Germany are authoritarian? There are extremist authoritarians everywhere. That was my point in the original post. And since they are essentially anti-democratic I think it's fair to label them as traitors and "enemies within". > Besides, there are things we cannot even criticise in this forum. We know that. Ycombinator has owners and a clear agenda. The punishment is being down-voted and made invisible. But there are ways to challenge entrenched ideas here and drag difficult topics out into the sunlight. > What are the ideals? Human rights. Particularly freedom of speech. > Other than maintaining the European domination of the world? I don't think it's fair to equate those things. I'm well aware of historical hegemony, That torch passed to the USA in the last century. > What? You sound like the morons that think we invade Iraq to bring freedom and democracy. Oh dear. I don't know where to start with all that. Iraq was an offensive resource war waged by the US to secure oil, with the side effect of toppling a disobedient puppet and assuaging the egos of two second rate Western leaders. That's not even debatable now. But to confuse that with the defeat of Nazism and Fascism in a world war in which 80-100 million people died shows an astonishingly poor grasp of history and politics.

simpletone 3y ago
> Human rights. Particularly freedom of speech. Neither human rights and especially freedom of speech was a product of 'liberal freedom loving democracies'. > That torch passed to the USA in the last century. America is a european nation. Founded by europeans and populated by europeans. > But to confuse that with the defeat of Nazism and Fascism in a world war in which 80-100 million people died shows an astonishingly poor grasp of history and politics. You forget most americans didn't want to defeat 'the nazis' or 'fascism'. Like every war we got involved in, it was against the will of the people. Besides, nazism and fascism was defeated by bigger nazis and bigger fascists. No serious person thinks the US, british empire or soviet union were any better than germany, italy and japan.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  I'm curious what glorious civilisation could ever meet your standards of approval?
  - simpletone 3y ago
    None. That's my point.