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Europe is not going to commit seppuku and willingly allow Chinese EVs to destroy their internal car industry. Especially since China is now more and more visib

Europe is not going to commit seppuku and willingly allow Chinese EVs to destroy their internal car industry. Especially since China is now more and more visibly aiding Russia in its war against Europe. Tariff from EU will stop Chinese EVs dead in the water. In fact, today, there was news that EU is set to allow possible retroactive tariffs on Chinese EVs [1]. And there's an ongoing EU anti-subsidy probe that will conclude this year, most likely resulting in more tariffs. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-set-allow-possible-retroactive-tariffs-chinese-evs-2024-03-05/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-set...

throwaway4good 3y ago
You will probably see european companies integrating with chinese suppliers (like Volkswagen / XPeng etc.); a bit like Tesla. European car markers still have much better brands and sales channels.
tdudhhu 3y ago
Not only that, there are also big concerns when it comes to spying. Huawei's net gear is alread being replaced with brands like Nokia and Ericsson. And car tech is becoming much more advanced so that it can also be used to spy on people.
- aurareturn 3y ago
  "Spying". The default word people here use to justify we shouldn't let China compete at the highest value chain.
  - tdudhhu 3y ago
    Also true, but China is spying on their own people already. I would not be surprised if Chinese EVs are sending data to the government. So the tech is there. And then it comes to trust. Will they not send data when they sell cars outside China?
  - yard2010 3y ago
    Yep. Call it whatever you like. The west should not let China compete at all. Not before we learn Winnie The Pooh's plans for the world in 2049. Cooperating with this evil is like driving into a brick wall to demonstrate how much freedom you have.
    - aurareturn 3y ago
      Evil depends on what perspective you're looking at. Every American has been fed so much propaganda that they see this as good vs evil fight. Meanwhile, when I visited China, people there only saw this as a political fight. A theater for economical gains. That's it. But in order to sell the American public on their actions, politicians have to demonize their foreign opponents in every way possible - often portraying them as "evil".
      - hotdogscout 3y ago
        I'm sorry but you have no grounds to claim you know Chinese people's political outlook based on a visit. Mainland China is still cut off from knowing a big chunk of human thought. Realism - the school of thought you're describing - is the Marxist mode in a place you can't vocally disagree without serious consequences. No wonder it's what you heard.
Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago
On the contrary, Europe is committing seppuku (and I say this as an European) by desperately clinging to an industry that is, and wants to keep being, obsolete. We have an almost negligible amount of oil, very far from covering our own consumption. We are very reliant on imports. It should have been our utmost interest, not now but already a decade or so ago, to tell our car industry to wake up once and for all and electrify. Instead, they doubled down on ICEs. Every day we have news in major newspapers, I suppose subsidized by Stellantis and Volkswagen, dwelling on how much EVs suck (full of fallacies like they will always be expensive, they actually emit more CO2 than ICEs if you consider manufacturing, sales are going down in X country - when actually it's invariably the first or even second derivative which goes down -, etc.) - it's pathetic. We have rampant inflation (to a large extent, precisely due to reliance in fossil fuel imports and the stop of inflows from Russia). People complain that even the lowest-end ICE cars have gone to €20K while anything more or less considered midrange is €30K, when only a decade ago sub-€10K cars and midrange €15K cars were a thing. European ICE cars are ridiculously uncompetitive so most people who want an EV and have the money buy a Tesla. And the response when someone wants to bring cars at the prices people want is to slap large tariffs... hell, I'm far from a free-market believer and I generally support tariffs as a way to support local industry and avoid external dependence, but this must be the paradigmatic example where they are a bad idea, with our industry only wanting to cling to ICE and being patted in the back for it. What do they want the EU to become, a country stuck in the past where you can see a fleet of cars from decades ago, like Cuba? Do they think it can even work? It's not only China, when Tesla releases the Model 2 it will be game over for the EU car industry anyway. They are already very late, any measure that doesn't focus on "Electrify. Yesterday" will only deepen an already dire situation.

throwaway4good 3y ago

You will probably see european companies integrating with chinese suppliers (like Volkswagen / XPeng etc.); a bit like Tesla. European car markers still have much better brands and sales channels.

tdudhhu 3y ago

Not only that, there are also big concerns when it comes to spying. Huawei's net gear is alread being replaced with brands like Nokia and Ericsson. And car tech is becoming much more advanced so that it can also be used to spy on people.

aurareturn 3y ago
"Spying". The default word people here use to justify we shouldn't let China compete at the highest value chain.
- tdudhhu 3y ago
  Also true, but China is spying on their own people already. I would not be surprised if Chinese EVs are sending data to the government. So the tech is there. And then it comes to trust. Will they not send data when they sell cars outside China?
- yard2010 3y ago
  Yep. Call it whatever you like. The west should not let China compete at all. Not before we learn Winnie The Pooh's plans for the world in 2049. Cooperating with this evil is like driving into a brick wall to demonstrate how much freedom you have.
  - aurareturn 3y ago
    Evil depends on what perspective you're looking at. Every American has been fed so much propaganda that they see this as good vs evil fight. Meanwhile, when I visited China, people there only saw this as a political fight. A theater for economical gains. That's it. But in order to sell the American public on their actions, politicians have to demonize their foreign opponents in every way possible - often portraying them as "evil".
    - hotdogscout 3y ago
      I'm sorry but you have no grounds to claim you know Chinese people's political outlook based on a visit. Mainland China is still cut off from knowing a big chunk of human thought. Realism - the school of thought you're describing - is the Marxist mode in a place you can't vocally disagree without serious consequences. No wonder it's what you heard.

Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago

On the contrary, Europe is committing seppuku (and I say this as an European) by desperately clinging to an industry that is, and wants to keep being, obsolete. We have an almost negligible amount of oil, very far from covering our own consumption. We are very reliant on imports. It should have been our utmost interest, not now but already a decade or so ago, to tell our car industry to wake up once and for all and electrify. Instead, they doubled down on ICEs. Every day we have news in major newspapers, I suppose subsidized by Stellantis and Volkswagen, dwelling on how much EVs suck (full of fallacies like they will always be expensive, they actually emit more CO2 than ICEs if you consider manufacturing, sales are going down in X country - when actually it's invariably the first or even second derivative which goes down -, etc.) - it's pathetic. We have rampant inflation (to a large extent, precisely due to reliance in fossil fuel imports and the stop of inflows from Russia). People complain that even the lowest-end ICE cars have gone to €20K while anything more or less considered midrange is €30K, when only a decade ago sub-€10K cars and midrange €15K cars were a thing. European ICE cars are ridiculously uncompetitive so most people who want an EV and have the money buy a Tesla. And the response when someone wants to bring cars at the prices people want is to slap large tariffs... hell, I'm far from a free-market believer and I generally support tariffs as a way to support local industry and avoid external dependence, but this must be the paradigmatic example where they are a bad idea, with our industry only wanting to cling to ICE and being patted in the back for it. What do they want the EU to become, a country stuck in the past where you can see a fleet of cars from decades ago, like Cuba? Do they think it can even work? It's not only China, when Tesla releases the Model 2 it will be game over for the EU car industry anyway. They are already very late, any measure that doesn't focus on "Electrify. Yesterday" will only deepen an already dire situation.