6 ms·

Ultra Librarian joins Flux to take the hard out of hardware

60 points by rock_hard 3y ago

engineer_22 3y ago
I have not found Flux to be particularly useful. For schematic design and PCB layout KiCAD is my go-to. Flux was difficult to use and the purported AI assistance was non-existent.
- polalavik 3y ago
  same I’ve tried to use flux multiple times and there’s just not an intuitive thing about it. I could barely draw a schematic. I should add that I’m somewhat experienced as well. I’ve successfully designed 6 layer boards with blind via, BGAs, Bluetooth trace antennas before trying flux. Still have no clue how to use flux.
swamp40 3y ago
Digikey has made Ultra Librarian famous. I wouldn't be surprised if they were connected somehow. About 80% of Digikey components have models. About 80% of those are Ultra Librarian models. About 95% of the models are correct, which is a lot better than a few years ago.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  All of it is better than a few years ago. I needed something with really complex footprint that no one had, I contacted SnapEDA, and for $50 they did a model and footprint in less than a day. Extremely worth the money in that case.
peteforde 3y ago
I spent several months working with Flux, and while I actually generally enjoyed the UI and web-based approach, I had to switch back to KiCAD because there were so many dealbreaking bugs in fundamental features. The realtime collaboration was just straight up broken; as in, my collaborator would make changes that would not manifest until I refreshed. This is unacceptable. The PCB tracing was unusable because you could not control the wires and things would appear in strange places. Forget auto-routing... I had trouble just getting it to connect wires. I could go on at (great) length, but while I genuinely am rooting for the team behind this product, I can't recommend it until they prioritize getting the fundamentals working properly over adding new AI features. That said, in attempting to work through these issues, I gained a healthy amount of respect for how hard it is to create a viable new entry in this domain. For whatever reason, it often seems culturally normalized to shit on Flux and I think this is toxic and unproductive.
- bsder 3y ago
  Partnering with Ultra Librarian is simply going to make me more inclined to shit on Flux, though. And I don't even know anything about Flux. These "library managers" like Ultra Librarian and SnapEDA are a pox upon the ecosystem. The symbols and footprints have non-open source licenses, so you nominally can't share them. They simply want to get in the middle of your design so that they can monetize you.
  - peteforde 3y ago
    Damn, I am apparently woefully ignorant of this. As someone who is somehow both intimidated and fatigued of having to track down multiple assets for every item in my BOM, DigiKey's downloadables have been huge win... or so I thought? How does the licensing issue actually manifest in a practical sense? By what mechanism(s) could this monetization occur? Is this sabre rattling or are small hardware designers actually getting bills for using premade footprints and models?
    - RF_Savage 3y ago
      I do like the DigiKey symbols, but the quality and style is all over the place with them.
  - by_Seeing 3y ago
    In Flux, this closed source aspect doesn't exist. Any user can fork and alter any part.
  - rgovostes 3y ago
    I looked into this the other day. SnapEDA says their symbols are CC licensed, though their FAQ reference some kind of license addition that tries to discourage mass redistribution—at the time I couldn’t find the actual text of this addition. Ultra Librarian did not publish any license I could locate.
    - RF_Savage 3y ago
      Is the license CC 4.0 or one of the older flawed ones? That part is very important when it comes to CC licenses. Make a mistake in attribution for pre-4.0 CC license and you are open to being sued by the rights holder. Cory Doctrow has an article about the background and the industry that sprang up to make use of this. https://pluralistic.net/2022/01/24/a-bug-in-early-creative-commons-licenses-has-enabled-a-new-breed-of-superpredator/ https://pluralistic.net/2022/01/24/a-bug-in-early-creative-c...
cyberax 3y ago
Now it needs to be integrated with atopile. It'd be nice to be able to describe the circuit as simple code, compile it, and then get it in the mail a couple of days later.
- swamp40 3y ago
  That looks cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Q0XVpfW3Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Q0XVpfW3Y
- Bluebirt 3y ago
  WOW. These two projects must be the most esoteric hardware projects out there. Why should anyone use code for hardware? This flux thing seems only to be useful for simple hobby projects.
  - cyberax 3y ago
    Because designing hardware is a mess. Especially if you want to tweak designs a bit. I'd love to be able to design circuits the way I can do with 3D printing.
dpcx 3y ago
Having never heard of Ultra Librarian, I thought this was somehow related to https://justgetflux.com/ https://justgetflux.com/ and that they'd made a switch from doing color changing to hardware.

60 points by rock_hard 3y ago

I have not found Flux to be particularly useful. For schematic design and PCB layout KiCAD is my go-to. Flux was difficult to use and the purported AI assistance was non-existent.

polalavik 3y ago
same I’ve tried to use flux multiple times and there’s just not an intuitive thing about it. I could barely draw a schematic. I should add that I’m somewhat experienced as well. I’ve successfully designed 6 layer boards with blind via, BGAs, Bluetooth trace antennas before trying flux. Still have no clue how to use flux.

swamp40 3y ago

Digikey has made Ultra Librarian famous. I wouldn't be surprised if they were connected somehow. About 80% of Digikey components have models. About 80% of those are Ultra Librarian models. About 95% of the models are correct, which is a lot better than a few years ago.

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
All of it is better than a few years ago. I needed something with really complex footprint that no one had, I contacted SnapEDA, and for $50 they did a model and footprint in less than a day. Extremely worth the money in that case.

peteforde 3y ago

I spent several months working with Flux, and while I actually generally enjoyed the UI and web-based approach, I had to switch back to KiCAD because there were so many dealbreaking bugs in fundamental features. The realtime collaboration was just straight up broken; as in, my collaborator would make changes that would not manifest until I refreshed. This is unacceptable. The PCB tracing was unusable because you could not control the wires and things would appear in strange places. Forget auto-routing... I had trouble just getting it to connect wires. I could go on at (great) length, but while I genuinely am rooting for the team behind this product, I can't recommend it until they prioritize getting the fundamentals working properly over adding new AI features. That said, in attempting to work through these issues, I gained a healthy amount of respect for how hard it is to create a viable new entry in this domain. For whatever reason, it often seems culturally normalized to shit on Flux and I think this is toxic and unproductive.

bsder 3y ago
Partnering with Ultra Librarian is simply going to make me more inclined to shit on Flux, though. And I don't even know anything about Flux. These "library managers" like Ultra Librarian and SnapEDA are a pox upon the ecosystem. The symbols and footprints have non-open source licenses, so you nominally can't share them. They simply want to get in the middle of your design so that they can monetize you.
- peteforde 3y ago
  Damn, I am apparently woefully ignorant of this. As someone who is somehow both intimidated and fatigued of having to track down multiple assets for every item in my BOM, DigiKey's downloadables have been huge win... or so I thought? How does the licensing issue actually manifest in a practical sense? By what mechanism(s) could this monetization occur? Is this sabre rattling or are small hardware designers actually getting bills for using premade footprints and models?
  - RF_Savage 3y ago
    I do like the DigiKey symbols, but the quality and style is all over the place with them.
- by_Seeing 3y ago
  In Flux, this closed source aspect doesn't exist. Any user can fork and alter any part.
- rgovostes 3y ago
  I looked into this the other day. SnapEDA says their symbols are CC licensed, though their FAQ reference some kind of license addition that tries to discourage mass redistribution—at the time I couldn’t find the actual text of this addition. Ultra Librarian did not publish any license I could locate.
  - RF_Savage 3y ago
    Is the license CC 4.0 or one of the older flawed ones? That part is very important when it comes to CC licenses. Make a mistake in attribution for pre-4.0 CC license and you are open to being sued by the rights holder. Cory Doctrow has an article about the background and the industry that sprang up to make use of this. https://pluralistic.net/2022/01/24/a-bug-in-early-creative-commons-licenses-has-enabled-a-new-breed-of-superpredator/ https://pluralistic.net/2022/01/24/a-bug-in-early-creative-c...

cyberax 3y ago

Now it needs to be integrated with atopile. It'd be nice to be able to describe the circuit as simple code, compile it, and then get it in the mail a couple of days later.

swamp40 3y ago
That looks cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Q0XVpfW3Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Q0XVpfW3Y
Bluebirt 3y ago
WOW. These two projects must be the most esoteric hardware projects out there. Why should anyone use code for hardware? This flux thing seems only to be useful for simple hobby projects.
- cyberax 3y ago
  Because designing hardware is a mess. Especially if you want to tweak designs a bit. I'd love to be able to design circuits the way I can do with 3D printing.

dpcx 3y ago

Having never heard of Ultra Librarian, I thought this was somehow related to https://justgetflux.com/ https://justgetflux.com/ and that they'd made a switch from doing color changing to hardware.