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Whatever he arrived with, it changed the plans of the Ukrainian government. I don't see how it removes any agency from Ukraine, or why that would even be a mean

Whatever he arrived with, it changed the plans of the Ukrainian government. I don't see how it removes any agency from Ukraine, or why that would even be a meaningful statement.

Wytwwww 3y ago
> Whatever he arrived with, it changed the plans of the Ukrainian government So you're claiming that Ukrainian government was willing to give up all the annexed regions including the territories they still controlled? Because that's what Russia was demanding. Do you have any evidence to back your claims?
- boffinAudio 3y ago
  https://www.intellinews.com/top-ukrainian-politician-oleksiy-arestovych-gives-seventh-confirmation-of-russia-ukraine-peace-deal-agreed-in-march-2022-302876/ https://www.intellinews.com/top-ukrainian-politician-oleksiy...
  - kranke155 3y ago
    You guys keep spamming this link but it’s completely irrelevant
    - boffinAudio 3y ago
      Its not irrelevant at all. You're just sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la la la .. can't hear inconvenient truth" ..
      - jnsaff2 3y ago
        Wholesale swallowing of russian propaganda counts as being woke these days?
        boffinAudio 3y ago
        "It doesn't agree with my American propaganda, therefore it must be Russian propaganda." Come on, really? You can't be this naive.
        jnsaff2 3y ago
        Dude, I have lived next to russia most of my life, when I was born, my country was occupied by russians as soviet union. I can see russian propaganda from far away. If you would stop and think what a "peace deal" with a vicious-murderous aggressor means then you would not spew such bullshit. russia started the war, killed hundreds of thousands of people already and you call for Ukrainians to surrender under "peace deal" so they would be tortured and enslaved under russian occupation. Also you could look into history to see whether there are any "peace deals" with russia that have held and not been just a pause for more aggression and atrocities.
        boffinAudio 3y ago
        I, too, can see Russia from here. On the basis of your moral imperative, there are no Western nations worthy of the peace, either. Its not like NATO isn't responsible for wide-spread destruction of sovereign democracies, also .. That's entirely besides the point. These entities should be making peace with each other in spite of each others crimes. It is your propaganda which precludes peace, because you are convinced, without rational thought, that peace is impossible... whereas, there was actually a peace deal brought to the table, nix'ed by NATO ..
        jnsaff2 3y ago
        What crime is Ukraine guilty of? Ukraine is not in NATO. One side is murdering and the other side should make peace by being murdered? What is my country guilty of?
        boffinAudio 3y ago
        Ukraine invited NATO-aligned actors to set up bases along its borders with Russia. That has been considered by the Russians to be an aggressive act warranting a hostile response. I don't agree with the invasion and destruction of Ukraine's eastern regions to be an appropriate response - but me, not agreeing with something, doesn't make it propaganda. Propaganda is "NATO and Ukraine have done nothing wrong, Russia are just inventing reasons". This propaganda is designed to prevent you from having a rational look at the reasons. Propaganda shuts down continued thought on the subject - I invite you to consider that perhaps you have not thought enough about why the Russians are willing to sacrifice so much, on their own borders. Just as you are inviting me to really, really think about whether Ukraines' actions warranted this heinous response. (Clue: I don't agree with any war, or that there is any such things as an honorable war these days. No nation state is worth the life of another human being, period. Both Russian and Ukrainian citizens as well as their ruling political classes should be reminded of this fact, repeatedly.)

Whatever he arrived with, it changed the plans of the Ukrainian government. I don't see how it removes any agency from Ukraine, or why that would even be a meaningful statement.

Wytwwww 3y ago

> Whatever he arrived with, it changed the plans of the Ukrainian government So you're claiming that Ukrainian government was willing to give up all the annexed regions including the territories they still controlled? Because that's what Russia was demanding. Do you have any evidence to back your claims?

boffinAudio 3y ago
https://www.intellinews.com/top-ukrainian-politician-oleksiy-arestovych-gives-seventh-confirmation-of-russia-ukraine-peace-deal-agreed-in-march-2022-302876/ https://www.intellinews.com/top-ukrainian-politician-oleksiy...
- kranke155 3y ago
  You guys keep spamming this link but it’s completely irrelevant
  - boffinAudio 3y ago
    Its not irrelevant at all. You're just sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la la la .. can't hear inconvenient truth" ..
    - jnsaff2 3y ago
      Wholesale swallowing of russian propaganda counts as being woke these days?
      - boffinAudio 3y ago
        "It doesn't agree with my American propaganda, therefore it must be Russian propaganda." Come on, really? You can't be this naive.
        jnsaff2 3y ago
        Dude, I have lived next to russia most of my life, when I was born, my country was occupied by russians as soviet union. I can see russian propaganda from far away. If you would stop and think what a "peace deal" with a vicious-murderous aggressor means then you would not spew such bullshit. russia started the war, killed hundreds of thousands of people already and you call for Ukrainians to surrender under "peace deal" so they would be tortured and enslaved under russian occupation. Also you could look into history to see whether there are any "peace deals" with russia that have held and not been just a pause for more aggression and atrocities.
        boffinAudio 3y ago
        I, too, can see Russia from here. On the basis of your moral imperative, there are no Western nations worthy of the peace, either. Its not like NATO isn't responsible for wide-spread destruction of sovereign democracies, also .. That's entirely besides the point. These entities should be making peace with each other in spite of each others crimes. It is your propaganda which precludes peace, because you are convinced, without rational thought, that peace is impossible... whereas, there was actually a peace deal brought to the table, nix'ed by NATO ..
        jnsaff2 3y ago
        What crime is Ukraine guilty of? Ukraine is not in NATO. One side is murdering and the other side should make peace by being murdered? What is my country guilty of?
        boffinAudio 3y ago
        Ukraine invited NATO-aligned actors to set up bases along its borders with Russia. That has been considered by the Russians to be an aggressive act warranting a hostile response. I don't agree with the invasion and destruction of Ukraine's eastern regions to be an appropriate response - but me, not agreeing with something, doesn't make it propaganda. Propaganda is "NATO and Ukraine have done nothing wrong, Russia are just inventing reasons". This propaganda is designed to prevent you from having a rational look at the reasons. Propaganda shuts down continued thought on the subject - I invite you to consider that perhaps you have not thought enough about why the Russians are willing to sacrifice so much, on their own borders. Just as you are inviting me to really, really think about whether Ukraines' actions warranted this heinous response. (Clue: I don't agree with any war, or that there is any such things as an honorable war these days. No nation state is worth the life of another human being, period. Both Russian and Ukrainian citizens as well as their ruling political classes should be reminded of this fact, repeatedly.)