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AI is Taking Water from the Desert

slavboj 3y ago
If only we had some neutral mechanism for allocating resources like electricity to productive uses! I guess we'll just have to ask the fine ladies at The Atlantic which of them are worthwhile.
- kec 3y ago
  I’m not sure that “try capitalism” is the best response to an article complaining about a market failure due to unpriced externalities.
  - slavboj 3y ago
    But I don't want to price externalities - I want The Atlantic to weight in on whether particular uses of electricity or water give them the ick or not.
jkoudys 3y ago
A year ago these articles were about how destructive server farms for crypto mining were. Now those same servers have pivoted to "AI" and the articles about them are almost the same. Perhaps we will always find a use for this computing power, as long as governments allow it to be built.
- slavboj 3y ago
  It is the easiest thing in the world to shut a rack off if it does not have a profitable use.
heroprotagonist 3y ago
Great, another '{Anything} is running in our datacenters, destroying our planet' article. I wonder how much clickbait is taking water from the desert. And as much as I'd _love_ to read about how you rode around in an Uber on a hot day, you're not going to get me to sign up for your website with that.
sxp 3y ago
Another article that completely fails to provide useful numbers. "Public data hint at the potential toll of this approach. Researchers at UC Riverside estimated last year, for example, that global AI demand could cause data centers to suck up 1.1 trillion to 1.7 trillion gallons of freshwater by 2027." Is that a lot or a little? How does it compare to other industries? https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/01/almonds-nuts-crazy-stats-charts/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/01/almonds-nuts... says CA almonds use 3.5e9 m3 == .9 Tgallons of water. So global AI demand will consume 1-2x the amount of water for CA to create almonds. Alternatively if it takes 872x water per unit of wine (https://muse.union.edu/mth-063-01-f18/2018/09/16/how-much-water-is-in-a-glass-of-wine/ https://muse.union.edu/mth-063-01-f18/2018/09/16/how-much-wa...) and the US drinks 33m hectoliters = .87B gallons of wine == .76 Tgallons of water, then AI will globally consume 2x the US consumption of water for wine. If I had to choose spending water on AI, almonds, or wine, I would choose AI. Though, I would love to have a dashboard on ChatGPT telling me that this query consumed X almonds worth of water.
- frizlab 3y ago
  Personally I’d chose almond or wine.
abhinavstarts 3y ago
Must say, there are hilarious roasts here.
gmuslera 3y ago
It is amazing how people complain about the energy and resources requirements for running AI while fail to notice the massive amount that is being used by the crypto mining, that at least in energy is more than what use several industrialized first world countries. At least AIs have some objective value.
UncleEntity 3y ago
> Exactly how much power does this Goodyear data center use, and how much of it is renewable? You could probably see the Palo Verde nuclear plant if you climb up on the roof of that data center...
shapenamer 3y ago
I enjoy the implication that these massive cities we've built in the scorching desert that don't have any water of their own aren't to blame in the slightest. Like it's impossible to build server infra anywhere else than one of the hottest places on the continent.
tzs 3y ago
What happens to the water after the data center is done with it?

If only we had some neutral mechanism for allocating resources like electricity to productive uses! I guess we'll just have to ask the fine ladies at The Atlantic which of them are worthwhile.

kec 3y ago
I’m not sure that “try capitalism” is the best response to an article complaining about a market failure due to unpriced externalities.
- slavboj 3y ago
  But I don't want to price externalities - I want The Atlantic to weight in on whether particular uses of electricity or water give them the ick or not.

jkoudys 3y ago

A year ago these articles were about how destructive server farms for crypto mining were. Now those same servers have pivoted to "AI" and the articles about them are almost the same. Perhaps we will always find a use for this computing power, as long as governments allow it to be built.

slavboj 3y ago
It is the easiest thing in the world to shut a rack off if it does not have a profitable use.

heroprotagonist 3y ago

Great, another '{Anything} is running in our datacenters, destroying our planet' article. I wonder how much clickbait is taking water from the desert. And as much as I'd _love_ to read about how you rode around in an Uber on a hot day, you're not going to get me to sign up for your website with that.

sxp 3y ago

Another article that completely fails to provide useful numbers. "Public data hint at the potential toll of this approach. Researchers at UC Riverside estimated last year, for example, that global AI demand could cause data centers to suck up 1.1 trillion to 1.7 trillion gallons of freshwater by 2027." Is that a lot or a little? How does it compare to other industries? https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/01/almonds-nuts-crazy-stats-charts/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/01/almonds-nuts... says CA almonds use 3.5e9 m3 == .9 Tgallons of water. So global AI demand will consume 1-2x the amount of water for CA to create almonds. Alternatively if it takes 872x water per unit of wine (https://muse.union.edu/mth-063-01-f18/2018/09/16/how-much-water-is-in-a-glass-of-wine/ https://muse.union.edu/mth-063-01-f18/2018/09/16/how-much-wa...) and the US drinks 33m hectoliters = .87B gallons of wine == .76 Tgallons of water, then AI will globally consume 2x the US consumption of water for wine. If I had to choose spending water on AI, almonds, or wine, I would choose AI. Though, I would love to have a dashboard on ChatGPT telling me that this query consumed X almonds worth of water.

frizlab 3y ago
Personally I’d chose almond or wine.

abhinavstarts 3y ago

Must say, there are hilarious roasts here.

gmuslera 3y ago

It is amazing how people complain about the energy and resources requirements for running AI while fail to notice the massive amount that is being used by the crypto mining, that at least in energy is more than what use several industrialized first world countries. At least AIs have some objective value.

UncleEntity 3y ago

> Exactly how much power does this Goodyear data center use, and how much of it is renewable? You could probably see the Palo Verde nuclear plant if you climb up on the roof of that data center...

shapenamer 3y ago

I enjoy the implication that these massive cities we've built in the scorching desert that don't have any water of their own aren't to blame in the slightest. Like it's impossible to build server infra anywhere else than one of the hottest places on the continent.

tzs 3y ago

What happens to the water after the data center is done with it?