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> did not win or lose anything Is this true? Would there not be dilution?

by pylua 3y ago

Kluggy 3y ago
There absolutely will be
- mgiannopoulos 3y ago
  Since the stock went up 10x during the timeframe of the deal, the shareholders benefited a lot.
  - Kluggy 3y ago
    Some shareholder benefited a lot. Some bought at the top and have only had negative returns. Some have a net zero cause the bought at this point on the way up. Just because some people have astronomical returns doesn't mean everyone received the same.
    - mgiannopoulos 3y ago
      We are talking about the shareholders who voted for the deal 6 years ago. The share is 10x since then. That’s why Musk was awarded the shares.
    - Zigurd 3y ago
      Especially if they hold TSLA indirectly through ARKK.
- seydor 3y ago
  How would there be dilution? He got stock options
seydor 3y ago
he s a shareholder too, no? net should be zero
- rhelz 3y ago
  An example with smaller numbers: Suppose a company is worth $10 and has 10 shares. The board issues 10 more shares to one person. Sure, the company would still be worth $10. But there are now 20 shares outstanding. Everybody except the guy who got 10 shares would see their shares fall in value from $1 to 50 cents. Basically, issuing stock to one person has the effect, mutatis mutants, of transferring wealth from all the other shareholders to the person who got the new stock.
  - seydor 3y ago
    Still the total value the shareholders hold is the same so they have have not been damaged as a group, which is alleged here. The damage is psychological, i.e. most of them are jealous of one of them
    - hollerith 3y ago
      That makes no sense. Any money or shares Tesla pays to Elon is money or shares that could instead be used to pay dividends to the shareholders or to buy back shares, which increases the value of all the shares that have not been bought back.
      - seydor 3y ago
        That's again assuming that elon is not a shareholder The dividends/buybacks are irrelevant. Anyone could sue to cut down dividends to increase buybacks or vice versa but thats besides the issue The whole conversation about dilution is irrelevant: elon was granted stock options, there would be no issuance of new stock
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - rhelz 3y ago
      chuckle so if you had $100,000 of stock, you would in no way feel like you had been ripped off if you logged in tomorrow and it was only worth $50,000? Because...that $50,000 was transferred to the CEO's stock account? After all, the $50,000 didn't just disappear, it transferred to the CEO's stock account, so it all evened out... ...man if you really feel that way, can I interest you in some stock? I'm thinking about making a start-up...

> did not win or lose anything Is this true? Would there not be dilution?

by pylua 3y ago

> did not win or lose anything Is this true? Would there not be dilution?

Kluggy 3y ago

There absolutely will be

mgiannopoulos 3y ago
Since the stock went up 10x during the timeframe of the deal, the shareholders benefited a lot.
- Kluggy 3y ago
  Some shareholder benefited a lot. Some bought at the top and have only had negative returns. Some have a net zero cause the bought at this point on the way up. Just because some people have astronomical returns doesn't mean everyone received the same.
  - mgiannopoulos 3y ago
    We are talking about the shareholders who voted for the deal 6 years ago. The share is 10x since then. That’s why Musk was awarded the shares.
  - Zigurd 3y ago
    Especially if they hold TSLA indirectly through ARKK.
seydor 3y ago
How would there be dilution? He got stock options

seydor 3y ago

he s a shareholder too, no? net should be zero

rhelz 3y ago
An example with smaller numbers: Suppose a company is worth $10 and has 10 shares. The board issues 10 more shares to one person. Sure, the company would still be worth $10. But there are now 20 shares outstanding. Everybody except the guy who got 10 shares would see their shares fall in value from $1 to 50 cents. Basically, issuing stock to one person has the effect, mutatis mutants, of transferring wealth from all the other shareholders to the person who got the new stock.
- seydor 3y ago
  Still the total value the shareholders hold is the same so they have have not been damaged as a group, which is alleged here. The damage is psychological, i.e. most of them are jealous of one of them
  - hollerith 3y ago
    That makes no sense. Any money or shares Tesla pays to Elon is money or shares that could instead be used to pay dividends to the shareholders or to buy back shares, which increases the value of all the shares that have not been bought back.
    - seydor 3y ago
      That's again assuming that elon is not a shareholder The dividends/buybacks are irrelevant. Anyone could sue to cut down dividends to increase buybacks or vice versa but thats besides the issue The whole conversation about dilution is irrelevant: elon was granted stock options, there would be no issuance of new stock
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - rhelz 3y ago
    chuckle so if you had $100,000 of stock, you would in no way feel like you had been ripped off if you logged in tomorrow and it was only worth $50,000? Because...that $50,000 was transferred to the CEO's stock account? After all, the $50,000 didn't just disappear, it transferred to the CEO's stock account, so it all evened out... ...man if you really feel that way, can I interest you in some stock? I'm thinking about making a start-up...