5 ms·

Why don't you like Foundation?

browningstreet 3y ago
It’s antithetical to the books and it’s just painful, to me, to watch. I kind of like what they did with Empire in the first season, but only made it through two episodes of this latest season before giving up. I hate-read summaries of the rest of the season on Wikipedia and nothing I saw made me reconsider my choice. I’ll grant that Lee Pace is great but they stranded Jared Harris.
- _Parfait_ 3y ago
  I think the number of people who read the books is quite small so they kind of had to pander to an audience that hadn't. I kind of enjoyed it but it is a bit...strange.
  - troupo 3y ago
    I read the books. But not many years ago like most people who claim to be Asimov fans or something. I went ahead and re-read the entire series before Season 1 was released. Asimov is a horrible writer. The books are just bad (with the exception of the first one https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39555390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39555390). And if you take the series as whole, what they did in the show is really good. Imagine springing the Mule or R.Daneel Olivaw out of nowhere like the books do?
squarefoot 3y ago
Not the PP, however it seems Foundation is one of those series both the audience and the actors themselves must sort of adapt to. I didn't read the Asimov original books (well I started like 40 years ago but gave up after finding them boring in contrast to short and non SF stories by him) so I didn't have any expectations, and was mostly satisfied with the series that appears getting better and better with time. Definitely not a masterpiece, but quite good.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Foundation the books... doesn't have good characterization. At all. But, Asimov, so that goes without saying. It does have some clever plot reveals, but at some point the "Ha! Little did you know this was the plan all along" becomes rote. The failure in adaptations I see is not understanding why people liked the source and leaning into that. It's not the window dressing / surface-level stuff that's too often mimicked: it's a more core, simple... thing. To me, Foundation was about 'epicness across time' But, if I wanted a better written version of that, I'd read the first 3 Dune novels.
Larrikin 3y ago
The only somewhat valid criticism I've read is that it's not exactly like the book. I went in fresh to the show and loved it so much that I decided to start the books. I'm enjoying both and mostly agree with the adaption changes to keep some semblance of familiar characters over a story taking place over hundreds of years. But I can see how it can be jarring if you went in expecting huge cast changes constantly. Some parts of the internet however dislike the adaptation because the main cast is no longer almost entirely male and really hate the skin color of some of the actors.
- zpeti 3y ago
  Oh ok, anyone who disagrees with me is a racist. Nice fact based argument there thanks.
  - croes 3y ago
    That's not what parent said. Some part have a problem with same characters are played by non white people or a different gender. That's a fact. Nobody said all who disliked it did because of the casting.
    - saberience 3y ago
      I hate this sort of "woke" argument. It's a way of shutting down valid criticism by portraying anyone who didn't like the show as a racist. I thought Foundation was a badly written show and poorly cast, but it had nothing to do with the gender or race of anyone, I just thought the cast mostly didn't give a shit, had never read the books, combined with a poor script.
      - croes 3y ago
        But there were also people who criticized black female actors playing white male roles from the book, and that's not a valid critique if the gender and skin color isn't a necessary part of the role.

It’s antithetical to the books and it’s just painful, to me, to watch. I kind of like what they did with Empire in the first season, but only made it through two episodes of this latest season before giving up. I hate-read summaries of the rest of the season on Wikipedia and nothing I saw made me reconsider my choice. I’ll grant that Lee Pace is great but they stranded Jared Harris.

_Parfait_ 3y ago
I think the number of people who read the books is quite small so they kind of had to pander to an audience that hadn't. I kind of enjoyed it but it is a bit...strange.
- troupo 3y ago
  I read the books. But not many years ago like most people who claim to be Asimov fans or something. I went ahead and re-read the entire series before Season 1 was released. Asimov is a horrible writer. The books are just bad (with the exception of the first one https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39555390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39555390). And if you take the series as whole, what they did in the show is really good. Imagine springing the Mule or R.Daneel Olivaw out of nowhere like the books do?

squarefoot 3y ago

Not the PP, however it seems Foundation is one of those series both the audience and the actors themselves must sort of adapt to. I didn't read the Asimov original books (well I started like 40 years ago but gave up after finding them boring in contrast to short and non SF stories by him) so I didn't have any expectations, and was mostly satisfied with the series that appears getting better and better with time. Definitely not a masterpiece, but quite good.

ethbr1 3y ago
Foundation the books... doesn't have good characterization. At all. But, Asimov, so that goes without saying. It does have some clever plot reveals, but at some point the "Ha! Little did you know this was the plan all along" becomes rote. The failure in adaptations I see is not understanding why people liked the source and leaning into that. It's not the window dressing / surface-level stuff that's too often mimicked: it's a more core, simple... thing. To me, Foundation was about 'epicness across time' But, if I wanted a better written version of that, I'd read the first 3 Dune novels.

Larrikin 3y ago

The only somewhat valid criticism I've read is that it's not exactly like the book. I went in fresh to the show and loved it so much that I decided to start the books. I'm enjoying both and mostly agree with the adaption changes to keep some semblance of familiar characters over a story taking place over hundreds of years. But I can see how it can be jarring if you went in expecting huge cast changes constantly. Some parts of the internet however dislike the adaptation because the main cast is no longer almost entirely male and really hate the skin color of some of the actors.

zpeti 3y ago
Oh ok, anyone who disagrees with me is a racist. Nice fact based argument there thanks.
- croes 3y ago
  That's not what parent said. Some part have a problem with same characters are played by non white people or a different gender. That's a fact. Nobody said all who disliked it did because of the casting.
  - saberience 3y ago
    I hate this sort of "woke" argument. It's a way of shutting down valid criticism by portraying anyone who didn't like the show as a racist. I thought Foundation was a badly written show and poorly cast, but it had nothing to do with the gender or race of anyone, I just thought the cast mostly didn't give a shit, had never read the books, combined with a poor script.
    - croes 3y ago
      But there were also people who criticized black female actors playing white male roles from the book, and that's not a valid critique if the gender and skin color isn't a necessary part of the role.