6 ms·

> Reality: It’s fine, I’ll finish the work on Saturday. At no point have I ever worked outside of contracted hours, and at no point will I ever do so. Sorry,

> Reality: It’s fine, I’ll finish the work on Saturday. At no point have I ever worked outside of contracted hours, and at no point will I ever do so. Sorry, no, once I did and it lead to me leaving the job..! And it's harmfully perpetuating the idea that you're expected to do so when you're not paid for the labour.

hk__2 3y ago
> At no point have I ever worked outside of contracted hours, and at no point will I ever do so. Sorry, no, once I did and it lead to me leaving the job..! "At no point have I ever worked outside of contracted hours" but "once I did"? Anyway, you probably worked at large companies only; I work in a startup and if the other ops guy is offline I do work off-hours because, well, the website won’t go back up by itself.
- sojournerc 3y ago
  If your website needs 24hr babysitting, you're doing something wrong.
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    The GP is saying that his website fails outside of the contracted hours as well as inside of them. And yes, an emergency here or there is normal in smaller companies. If they start happening several times in a single year, it's a sign that something is very wrong, but it's not reasonable to expect them never to happen. Also, a small place will have scheduled out-of-hours work. Those can be well planed or not, and people can be well compensated or not, but they'll always exist.
  - hk__2 3y ago
    I never said that. There has been a hardware failure in the datacenter, something we could hardly have prevented.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mamonster 3y ago
  There are 2 cases you should be working on weekends: 1) First 2-3 years of career - In these times you learn by simply doing, so if you work on weekends you speed up your learning curve. Past 2-3 years you don't learn anything by doing normal work, so you need your weekends to do actual "levelling up". 2) You have equity in the business or you have a bonus structure that compensates weekend work. If you are outside those 2 cases, and you are working more than 5 weekends a year (say 2-3 weekends per 6 months for true random business emergencies that almost everyone in the org has to do), you need to leave.
lopkeny12ko 3y ago
What's your expectation here? That you'll grow your career by coasting? Becoming senior requires hard work and dedication. > And it's harmfully perpetuating the idea that you're expected to do so when you're not paid for the labour. What are you talking about? Seniors earn 2-5x the amount as a junior developer.
- vundercind 3y ago
  Doing the job you’re paid to for the amount of time you’re paid to isn’t fucking coasting. Coasting is what shitty PMs and managers do when their plans will only work if their peons are dumb enough to give them free labor.
  - lopkeny12ko 3y ago
    To each their own, but this is in fundamental disagreement with how career ladders work. If you do the bare minimum to get by, you meet expectations. If you want to grow your career, by necessity and definition, you need to go above and beyond in order to exceed expectations, and this requires hard work. Companies like Google, Facebook, et al. have defined dexpectations in place that juniors must grow into a senior role in N years. If you don't, you'll be fired for underperformance. So yes, if you're a junior, "just doing the job" is coasting.
    - sojournerc 3y ago
      Working the 40 hours you're paid for is not the "bare minimum". That's the most a company should ask of you without additional comp. You can go above and beyond in 40 hours. Quality, intelligent work does not require overtime. Hustle culture is simply wrong here. Luckily I could not care less about working at faang or whatever the fuck they're called these days.

hk__2 3y ago

> At no point have I ever worked outside of contracted hours, and at no point will I ever do so. Sorry, no, once I did and it lead to me leaving the job..! "At no point have I ever worked outside of contracted hours" but "once I did"? Anyway, you probably worked at large companies only; I work in a startup and if the other ops guy is offline I do work off-hours because, well, the website won’t go back up by itself.

sojournerc 3y ago
If your website needs 24hr babysitting, you're doing something wrong.
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  The GP is saying that his website fails outside of the contracted hours as well as inside of them. And yes, an emergency here or there is normal in smaller companies. If they start happening several times in a single year, it's a sign that something is very wrong, but it's not reasonable to expect them never to happen. Also, a small place will have scheduled out-of-hours work. Those can be well planed or not, and people can be well compensated or not, but they'll always exist.
- hk__2 3y ago
  I never said that. There has been a hardware failure in the datacenter, something we could hardly have prevented.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mamonster 3y ago
There are 2 cases you should be working on weekends: 1) First 2-3 years of career - In these times you learn by simply doing, so if you work on weekends you speed up your learning curve. Past 2-3 years you don't learn anything by doing normal work, so you need your weekends to do actual "levelling up". 2) You have equity in the business or you have a bonus structure that compensates weekend work. If you are outside those 2 cases, and you are working more than 5 weekends a year (say 2-3 weekends per 6 months for true random business emergencies that almost everyone in the org has to do), you need to leave.

lopkeny12ko 3y ago

What's your expectation here? That you'll grow your career by coasting? Becoming senior requires hard work and dedication. > And it's harmfully perpetuating the idea that you're expected to do so when you're not paid for the labour. What are you talking about? Seniors earn 2-5x the amount as a junior developer.

vundercind 3y ago
Doing the job you’re paid to for the amount of time you’re paid to isn’t fucking coasting. Coasting is what shitty PMs and managers do when their plans will only work if their peons are dumb enough to give them free labor.
- lopkeny12ko 3y ago
  To each their own, but this is in fundamental disagreement with how career ladders work. If you do the bare minimum to get by, you meet expectations. If you want to grow your career, by necessity and definition, you need to go above and beyond in order to exceed expectations, and this requires hard work. Companies like Google, Facebook, et al. have defined dexpectations in place that juniors must grow into a senior role in N years. If you don't, you'll be fired for underperformance. So yes, if you're a junior, "just doing the job" is coasting.
  - sojournerc 3y ago
    Working the 40 hours you're paid for is not the "bare minimum". That's the most a company should ask of you without additional comp. You can go above and beyond in 40 hours. Quality, intelligent work does not require overtime. Hustle culture is simply wrong here. Luckily I could not care less about working at faang or whatever the fuck they're called these days.