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> Where people live, the infrastructure exists. Have you tried using non-Tesla charging stations? It's a disaster! Those charging terminals are hastily thrown

by dxhdr 3y ago

> Where people live, the infrastructure exists. Have you tried using non-Tesla charging stations? It's a disaster! Those charging terminals are hastily thrown together pieces of junk, frankly. The hardware, software, billing, everything.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
MrRadar 3y ago
Most people should be doing most of their charging at home. As someone pointed out downthread, level 1 (120V/15A) charging should be sufficient to cover most people's daily driving needs as long as they can keep the vehicle plugged in while they're not driving it. Obviously this is much easier for some (people who own a home with a garage) than others (people who do not have a garage or other fixed parking spot) but that's a problem we can fix gradually as electric cars gain market share.
- someguydave 3y ago
  Yep I agree EV charging “grid upgrades” will cost some amount but it is small potatoes in the big picture, like a couple pennies per day per person
tw04 3y ago
>Have you tried using non-Tesla charging stations? It's a disaster! Those charging terminals are hastily thrown together pieces of junk, frankly. The hardware, software, billing, everything. I've used public CCS charging for several years and I think your assessment is more than a bit harsh. Is the Tesla network more refined, reliable, and widespread? Yes. Is the CCS option "a disaster"? Absolutely not. I would call it a mixed bag. Level-2 charging has just worked 99.999% of the time. DC fast charging there are stations that can be out of service more often than I would like, but if you use the plugshare app you will almost certainly be able to reliably find chargers that are both working and available. It is extremely annoying to potentially have to use more than one app, but I would hope that will slowly change over time. The best thing the government could do is mandate some sort of centralized billing option for all of the various providers. For and GM are trying to do it through their apps but the problem is they only cover a subset of networks.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  > Level-2 charging has just worked 99.999% of the time. If Level 2 charging worked all but 1 in 100K trials, neither you (in several years) nor I (in 10 years) should have expected to be a favorite to have experienced even a single Level 2 charger outage. Instead, I've experienced multiple such failures every year. I'm a pretty big supporter of the potential of EVs, and been very happy with mine (even having bought the cheapest and worst one: a Nissan Leaf). But, I'm also a fan of using correct estimations and data when confronting the problems with EV-related infrastructure and I estimate public Level 2 charging to be closer to 99.5% than 99.999% (1 in 200 failures vs 1 in 100K failures). That might even be a slightly generous estimate.
  - tw04 3y ago
    I've literally never come across an L2 charger not working anywhere in my state. I have seen one offline in the last 4 years. Looking at plugshare I see one site that had an outage for 2 days across all L2 chargers in the last 90 days. Presumably you've got a database that you just forgot to link that you can reference for your information since you're a fan of correct estimations and data, and not just using your personal anecdotal experience. Because otherwise you're just being pedantic.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      Sure, here's a data summary of overall grid availability, which in most places will serve as the upper limit on L2 charging availability. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=50316 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=50316 That gives a typical grid availability of only 99.95%, making it pretty unlikely that the L2 network will have 1/50th the downtime of the grid itself.

by dxhdr 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

MrRadar 3y ago

Most people should be doing most of their charging at home. As someone pointed out downthread, level 1 (120V/15A) charging should be sufficient to cover most people's daily driving needs as long as they can keep the vehicle plugged in while they're not driving it. Obviously this is much easier for some (people who own a home with a garage) than others (people who do not have a garage or other fixed parking spot) but that's a problem we can fix gradually as electric cars gain market share.

someguydave 3y ago
Yep I agree EV charging “grid upgrades” will cost some amount but it is small potatoes in the big picture, like a couple pennies per day per person

tw04 3y ago

>Have you tried using non-Tesla charging stations? It's a disaster! Those charging terminals are hastily thrown together pieces of junk, frankly. The hardware, software, billing, everything. I've used public CCS charging for several years and I think your assessment is more than a bit harsh. Is the Tesla network more refined, reliable, and widespread? Yes. Is the CCS option "a disaster"? Absolutely not. I would call it a mixed bag. Level-2 charging has just worked 99.999% of the time. DC fast charging there are stations that can be out of service more often than I would like, but if you use the plugshare app you will almost certainly be able to reliably find chargers that are both working and available. It is extremely annoying to potentially have to use more than one app, but I would hope that will slowly change over time. The best thing the government could do is mandate some sort of centralized billing option for all of the various providers. For and GM are trying to do it through their apps but the problem is they only cover a subset of networks.

sokoloff 3y ago
> Level-2 charging has just worked 99.999% of the time. If Level 2 charging worked all but 1 in 100K trials, neither you (in several years) nor I (in 10 years) should have expected to be a favorite to have experienced even a single Level 2 charger outage. Instead, I've experienced multiple such failures every year. I'm a pretty big supporter of the potential of EVs, and been very happy with mine (even having bought the cheapest and worst one: a Nissan Leaf). But, I'm also a fan of using correct estimations and data when confronting the problems with EV-related infrastructure and I estimate public Level 2 charging to be closer to 99.5% than 99.999% (1 in 200 failures vs 1 in 100K failures). That might even be a slightly generous estimate.
- tw04 3y ago
  I've literally never come across an L2 charger not working anywhere in my state. I have seen one offline in the last 4 years. Looking at plugshare I see one site that had an outage for 2 days across all L2 chargers in the last 90 days. Presumably you've got a database that you just forgot to link that you can reference for your information since you're a fan of correct estimations and data, and not just using your personal anecdotal experience. Because otherwise you're just being pedantic.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Sure, here's a data summary of overall grid availability, which in most places will serve as the upper limit on L2 charging availability. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=50316 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=50316 That gives a typical grid availability of only 99.95%, making it pretty unlikely that the L2 network will have 1/50th the downtime of the grid itself.