7 ms·

The point of a union is that if you don't like it you can advocate to it for changes with less of a power imbalance than if it was the company that you didn't l

by Osmose 3y ago

The point of a union is that if you don't like it you can advocate to it for changes with less of a power imbalance than if it was the company that you didn't like. The union can't fire you like the company can. To paraphrase a common argument about why we don't need unions, if you don't like the union, why not just find another job?

ARandomerDude 3y ago
> I don't see anything in the constitution about that. > The point of a union is… Those comments are unrelated. You can like an idea but that doesn’t mean it’s constitutional, which is why amendments exist. Conversely, you can very much dislike an idea that may be in the Constitution. “Good idea” and “legal” are distinct categories.
- Osmose 3y ago
  Rightness and legality are intertwined in a world where laws are slower than public opinion and people can voluntarily choose to do more than only what the law allows for. But a more direct criticism of the legal aspect would be: getting a job is voluntary from a legal perspective, how does that make joining the associated union a compelled action? The union is part of the job. Besides, union security agreements already _are_ heavily regulated in the US.
bluGill 3y ago
> less of a power imbalance than if it was the company that you didn't like. Not really. Sure you in theory vote for union leaders, but in practice it ends up being just as bad as any other politics and so you don't really have any more ability to change things. > The union can't fire you like the company can. What is the difference between being fired and being told we don't have any work for you? Labors often do lose their job - they may still be in the union and thus early in line if there is another job, but they don't have control of when jobs come up.
- Osmose 3y ago
  > Sure you in theory vote for union leaders, but in practice it ends up being just as bad as any other politics This is not at all universally true? A union can be dysfunctional just like any other collaboration between people—that's hardly a reason to not even try. Specifically, I joined the Glitch union along with my coworkers in 2020, and we were pretty united on what we wanted to negotiate for. The union more than paid for the effort we put in to forming it and our dues when it won severance and health coverage for those hit by layoffs later. > What is the difference between being fired and being told we don't have any work for you? Labors often do lose their job - they may still be in the union and thus early in line if there is another job, but they don't have control of when jobs come up. What does this have to do with a union improving the power balance in negotiations between employees and a company? If you're suggesting that even with a union companies can find ways to get rid of you, well, that's one of the very things unions can fight against with the help of the labor board being threatened in the article above.

by Osmose 3y ago

ARandomerDude 3y ago

> I don't see anything in the constitution about that. > The point of a union is… Those comments are unrelated. You can like an idea but that doesn’t mean it’s constitutional, which is why amendments exist. Conversely, you can very much dislike an idea that may be in the Constitution. “Good idea” and “legal” are distinct categories.

Osmose 3y ago
Rightness and legality are intertwined in a world where laws are slower than public opinion and people can voluntarily choose to do more than only what the law allows for. But a more direct criticism of the legal aspect would be: getting a job is voluntary from a legal perspective, how does that make joining the associated union a compelled action? The union is part of the job. Besides, union security agreements already _are_ heavily regulated in the US.

bluGill 3y ago

> less of a power imbalance than if it was the company that you didn't like. Not really. Sure you in theory vote for union leaders, but in practice it ends up being just as bad as any other politics and so you don't really have any more ability to change things. > The union can't fire you like the company can. What is the difference between being fired and being told we don't have any work for you? Labors often do lose their job - they may still be in the union and thus early in line if there is another job, but they don't have control of when jobs come up.

Osmose 3y ago
> Sure you in theory vote for union leaders, but in practice it ends up being just as bad as any other politics This is not at all universally true? A union can be dysfunctional just like any other collaboration between people—that's hardly a reason to not even try. Specifically, I joined the Glitch union along with my coworkers in 2020, and we were pretty united on what we wanted to negotiate for. The union more than paid for the effort we put in to forming it and our dues when it won severance and health coverage for those hit by layoffs later. > What is the difference between being fired and being told we don't have any work for you? Labors often do lose their job - they may still be in the union and thus early in line if there is another job, but they don't have control of when jobs come up. What does this have to do with a union improving the power balance in negotiations between employees and a company? If you're suggesting that even with a union companies can find ways to get rid of you, well, that's one of the very things unions can fight against with the help of the labor board being threatened in the article above.