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dreams of a time where EU regulates GPU manufacturers into providing a pluggable interface for VRAM on the cards... 2035?

DrNosferatu 3y ago
Or the EU enforces competition on the AI hardware market by funding an “Airbus for GPUs”. I would say it’s even more strategic than the original.
- dist-epoch 3y ago
  The EU Airbus for GPUs will appear 10 years from now and have the performance of a GPU from two years ago.
  - DrNosferatu 3y ago
    They won't start from zero. Nevertheless, what you point out is one more reason to get started ASAP.
- DrNosferatu 3y ago
  As with the Concorde, the UK could be included. So this would encompass: ARM Holdings; Imagination Technologies (UK) - PowerVR GPUs (mobile, automotive, embedded) NXP Semiconductors (Netherlands) - GPUs for automotive & industrial STMicroelectronics (France/Italy) - GPUs for automotive, industrial & consumer BrainChip (Australia, subsidiary in France) - neuromorphic computing chips (similar to GPUs) Graphcore (UK) - intelligence processing units (IPUs) for machine learning (alternative to GPUs for some applications) InCore Semiconductor (Netherlands) - custom high-performance computing (HPC) solutions, including GPUs Kalray (France) - programmable processors for data centers (alternative to GPUs for some applications) RISC-V International (non-profit, enables European companies to design own GPUs) Think Silicon (Greece) ...any others?
jsheard 3y ago
The signaling requirements are way too tight for pluggable VRAM to ever be a thing. If anything we're headed in the other direction, with CPUs losing pluggable memory in order to achieve tighter timings like GPUs do, Apple is already doing it and Intel is set to follow. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-demos-meteor-lake-cpu-with-on-package-lpddr5x https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-demos-meteor-lake-cp...
- sspiff 3y ago
  Exactly. There's a reason these chips are always surrounding the processor (since the 2000s) and why we haven't seen GDDR based plugable memory modules. For this same reason (timing precision) you see that soldered DDR5 memory often reaches way higher speeds than what's available in DIMM or SODIMM form.
  - jsheard 3y ago
    I'm looking forward to the performance, but not looking forward to higher capacity RAM being segmented off to overpriced "professional" SKUs like high VRAM capacity is on GPUs. Currently you can run up to 192GB RAM on a consumer CPU platform but I doubt RAM-on-package consumer parts will scale that high.
    - sspiff 3y ago
      Yeah manufacturers love this evolution because it means everyone who wants or needs high memory will be forced to buy for their projected memory needs throughout the live cycle of the product on day one, and the only place they can get it is at inflated prices from the vendor. I wonder how they will do this in the workstation and server space, I don't really see how they can do away with socketed CPUs. I wonder if we will go back to slotted CPUs, with a SOM style board with CPU and memory being plugged into a motherboard/chassis that's really just an I/O back plane. How will multi Cpu communication look then? I guess we already have memory being pinned to a NUMA node and connecting to others via a vendor specific interconnect, so maybe it's not that strange and different from today.
lvl102 3y ago
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- wongarsu 3y ago
  EU companies selling in the US have to follow US regulations, US companies selling in the EU have to follow EU regulations. And in both cases, only for activities in the respective market. For example Apple would be free to sell lightning port iPhones in the US and USB-C iPhones in the EU. Or don't make USB-C iPhones and not sell any iPhones in the EU, if they don't want to be "leeched". Same for Nvidia and this hypothetical regulation for swappable RAM (which is never going to happen because it isn't technically viable)
- Cheer2171 3y ago
  If you do business with citizens of another country, in that country, you should expect to have to follow that country's regulations. Your position is literally American exceptionalism. Do you think that because of NATO that US companies should be able to ignore EU consumer protection laws?
- DrNosferatu 3y ago
  The US funds their companies a lot - via the DoD. The EU is only making it right.
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DrNosferatu 3y ago

Or the EU enforces competition on the AI hardware market by funding an “Airbus for GPUs”. I would say it’s even more strategic than the original.

dist-epoch 3y ago
The EU Airbus for GPUs will appear 10 years from now and have the performance of a GPU from two years ago.
- DrNosferatu 3y ago
  They won't start from zero. Nevertheless, what you point out is one more reason to get started ASAP.
DrNosferatu 3y ago
As with the Concorde, the UK could be included. So this would encompass: ARM Holdings; Imagination Technologies (UK) - PowerVR GPUs (mobile, automotive, embedded) NXP Semiconductors (Netherlands) - GPUs for automotive & industrial STMicroelectronics (France/Italy) - GPUs for automotive, industrial & consumer BrainChip (Australia, subsidiary in France) - neuromorphic computing chips (similar to GPUs) Graphcore (UK) - intelligence processing units (IPUs) for machine learning (alternative to GPUs for some applications) InCore Semiconductor (Netherlands) - custom high-performance computing (HPC) solutions, including GPUs Kalray (France) - programmable processors for data centers (alternative to GPUs for some applications) RISC-V International (non-profit, enables European companies to design own GPUs) Think Silicon (Greece) ...any others?

jsheard 3y ago

The signaling requirements are way too tight for pluggable VRAM to ever be a thing. If anything we're headed in the other direction, with CPUs losing pluggable memory in order to achieve tighter timings like GPUs do, Apple is already doing it and Intel is set to follow. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-demos-meteor-lake-cpu-with-on-package-lpddr5x https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-demos-meteor-lake-cp...

sspiff 3y ago
Exactly. There's a reason these chips are always surrounding the processor (since the 2000s) and why we haven't seen GDDR based plugable memory modules. For this same reason (timing precision) you see that soldered DDR5 memory often reaches way higher speeds than what's available in DIMM or SODIMM form.
- jsheard 3y ago
  I'm looking forward to the performance, but not looking forward to higher capacity RAM being segmented off to overpriced "professional" SKUs like high VRAM capacity is on GPUs. Currently you can run up to 192GB RAM on a consumer CPU platform but I doubt RAM-on-package consumer parts will scale that high.
  - sspiff 3y ago
    Yeah manufacturers love this evolution because it means everyone who wants or needs high memory will be forced to buy for their projected memory needs throughout the live cycle of the product on day one, and the only place they can get it is at inflated prices from the vendor. I wonder how they will do this in the workstation and server space, I don't really see how they can do away with socketed CPUs. I wonder if we will go back to slotted CPUs, with a SOM style board with CPU and memory being plugged into a motherboard/chassis that's really just an I/O back plane. How will multi Cpu communication look then? I guess we already have memory being pinned to a NUMA node and connecting to others via a vendor specific interconnect, so maybe it's not that strange and different from today.

lvl102 3y ago

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wongarsu 3y ago
EU companies selling in the US have to follow US regulations, US companies selling in the EU have to follow EU regulations. And in both cases, only for activities in the respective market. For example Apple would be free to sell lightning port iPhones in the US and USB-C iPhones in the EU. Or don't make USB-C iPhones and not sell any iPhones in the EU, if they don't want to be "leeched". Same for Nvidia and this hypothetical regulation for swappable RAM (which is never going to happen because it isn't technically viable)
Cheer2171 3y ago
If you do business with citizens of another country, in that country, you should expect to have to follow that country's regulations. Your position is literally American exceptionalism. Do you think that because of NATO that US companies should be able to ignore EU consumer protection laws?
DrNosferatu 3y ago
The US funds their companies a lot - via the DoD. The EU is only making it right.

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