6 ms·

It's not that long ago in human history that basically none of the jobs we do now existed. So it is kind of myopic to think that any current career is a calling

It's not that long ago in human history that basically none of the jobs we do now existed. So it is kind of myopic to think that any current career is a calling. Art can become a craft again, not a career. There is nothing wrong with that.

dandelany 3y ago
Also not that long ago electricity and clean drinking water weren't a thing. The fact that people can make a career as an artist now, and couldn't before, is something I'd consider an advancement! "Nothing wrong with that" is a conclusion that simply doesn't follow from the rest of your post.
anigbrowl 3y ago
It takes a lot of time to develop that craft, which won't be available to you if you have to do drudgery to keep a roof over your head. You're arguing for art to be at best a hobby, and full-time pursuit of it to be limited to rich kids. Also I take issue with your argument about 'none of the jobs we do now' existing through most of history. Farming, construction, fighting, bookkeeping, cooking, transport, security are all jobs that have been around as long as people have lived in settlements. Sure, you could point to the long history of nomadic hunting and gathering prior to that, but that's like expanding your argument back to the origin of cellular life or forward to the heat death of the universe in order to make your interlocutor's arguments look insignificant on a cosmic scale. It's not a helpful contribution to addressing the real challenges of the present.
- vunderba 3y ago
  There hasn't been any money in the arts in a long long time so I'm not sure where this is coming from. For every one musician that's able to pay the bills, there's 1000 equally talented musicians that can't even get noticed.
  - anigbrowl 3y ago
    How long of a time are we talking about here? It was a lot easier to make a modest but steady living in the arts 30 or even 15 years ago. It's probably easier to have a breakout hit today on YouTube or Tiktok and maybe make a lot of money fast, but not to making a living consistently without sweatshopping content or being extremely personally attractive or similar.
  - nirvdrum 3y ago
    There’s also loads artists that do web and graphic design, make videos for product demos, ad campaigns, and so on. It’s perhaps not the purest form of art, but it is one way in which artists can apply their craft and still put a roof over their heads. A lot of these AI tools seems squarely aimed at eliminating those positions. For what it’s worth, I think we’re going to see a slide in quality. Maybe there will be a niche for some. But, I think companies will settle for 70% quality if it means eliminating 100% of a full-time position.
brenoRibeiro706 3y ago
Exactly
bobsomers 3y ago
> Art can become a craft again, not a career. This sounds nice, but having worked with many artists in the past a lot of them do it because they're good at it, it's enjoyable enough, and it pays their bills so they can eat. Telling them, "You're now free to make the art you really wanted to make!" doesn't bring much comfort when you're taking away their ability to put food on the table.
- suyash 3y ago
  Exactly, there are lot of arm chair experts in the forum today who have no clue about the reality of the industry, people do it because they are passionate about it and devote thier whole life to get good at it, this is just taking food from thier mouth.
sydd 3y ago
> Art can become a craft again, not a career The issue is that those jobs that got automated to "become a craft again" have mostly vanished, except for high-end stuff. Some examples: shoe making, artisan furniture, tailors, watchmakers. Unless you are the best of the best these are hobbies now not something you make money from. Nowadays most people make money in bleak half-automated jobs (e.g. construction, factory workers) or in white collar jobs sitting in front of a computer in some cubicle doing some mind numbing task for a megacorp. I'm usually hyped about technological advancement, but very bleak about AI. I think it will just bring more sublte propaganda for state actors, more subtle advertising for megacorps, the dieing of creative jobs like graphic artists or actors is just a sad sideeffect (these will still exist, but only as high end -- we will always have real AAA actors, but the days of extras on movie sets are counted -- lots of the Hollywood protests were because studios started doing contracts for noname actors that stated that the studio will regain rights of the actor's digital likeness)
- fasterik 3y ago
  When is a time in history when everyone had really great jobs? Before the industrial revolution, you had most people doing subsistence farming. During the industrial revolution, you had 14 hour a day exploited laborers working in factories. Maybe there was a brief period after World War II where you had a large middle class with stable careers and affordable housing. That's not the norm for the millions of years of history of human evolution.
  - afthonos 3y ago
    Ok, but like…that’s a bug, not a feature.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - fasterik 3y ago
      To me, this reflects a perfectionist mindset. Life is better today for billions of people than it has been at any other point in the history of the human species. If you consider it a "bug" that we don't live in some sort of utopia where everyone's dreams are fulfilled, maybe you need to change your expectations and view things in a larger historical perspective.

dandelany 3y ago

Also not that long ago electricity and clean drinking water weren't a thing. The fact that people can make a career as an artist now, and couldn't before, is something I'd consider an advancement! "Nothing wrong with that" is a conclusion that simply doesn't follow from the rest of your post.

anigbrowl 3y ago

It takes a lot of time to develop that craft, which won't be available to you if you have to do drudgery to keep a roof over your head. You're arguing for art to be at best a hobby, and full-time pursuit of it to be limited to rich kids. Also I take issue with your argument about 'none of the jobs we do now' existing through most of history. Farming, construction, fighting, bookkeeping, cooking, transport, security are all jobs that have been around as long as people have lived in settlements. Sure, you could point to the long history of nomadic hunting and gathering prior to that, but that's like expanding your argument back to the origin of cellular life or forward to the heat death of the universe in order to make your interlocutor's arguments look insignificant on a cosmic scale. It's not a helpful contribution to addressing the real challenges of the present.

vunderba 3y ago
There hasn't been any money in the arts in a long long time so I'm not sure where this is coming from. For every one musician that's able to pay the bills, there's 1000 equally talented musicians that can't even get noticed.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  How long of a time are we talking about here? It was a lot easier to make a modest but steady living in the arts 30 or even 15 years ago. It's probably easier to have a breakout hit today on YouTube or Tiktok and maybe make a lot of money fast, but not to making a living consistently without sweatshopping content or being extremely personally attractive or similar.
- nirvdrum 3y ago
  There’s also loads artists that do web and graphic design, make videos for product demos, ad campaigns, and so on. It’s perhaps not the purest form of art, but it is one way in which artists can apply their craft and still put a roof over their heads. A lot of these AI tools seems squarely aimed at eliminating those positions. For what it’s worth, I think we’re going to see a slide in quality. Maybe there will be a niche for some. But, I think companies will settle for 70% quality if it means eliminating 100% of a full-time position.

brenoRibeiro706 3y ago

Exactly

bobsomers 3y ago

> Art can become a craft again, not a career. This sounds nice, but having worked with many artists in the past a lot of them do it because they're good at it, it's enjoyable enough, and it pays their bills so they can eat. Telling them, "You're now free to make the art you really wanted to make!" doesn't bring much comfort when you're taking away their ability to put food on the table.

suyash 3y ago
Exactly, there are lot of arm chair experts in the forum today who have no clue about the reality of the industry, people do it because they are passionate about it and devote thier whole life to get good at it, this is just taking food from thier mouth.

sydd 3y ago

> Art can become a craft again, not a career The issue is that those jobs that got automated to "become a craft again" have mostly vanished, except for high-end stuff. Some examples: shoe making, artisan furniture, tailors, watchmakers. Unless you are the best of the best these are hobbies now not something you make money from. Nowadays most people make money in bleak half-automated jobs (e.g. construction, factory workers) or in white collar jobs sitting in front of a computer in some cubicle doing some mind numbing task for a megacorp. I'm usually hyped about technological advancement, but very bleak about AI. I think it will just bring more sublte propaganda for state actors, more subtle advertising for megacorps, the dieing of creative jobs like graphic artists or actors is just a sad sideeffect (these will still exist, but only as high end -- we will always have real AAA actors, but the days of extras on movie sets are counted -- lots of the Hollywood protests were because studios started doing contracts for noname actors that stated that the studio will regain rights of the actor's digital likeness)

fasterik 3y ago
When is a time in history when everyone had really great jobs? Before the industrial revolution, you had most people doing subsistence farming. During the industrial revolution, you had 14 hour a day exploited laborers working in factories. Maybe there was a brief period after World War II where you had a large middle class with stable careers and affordable housing. That's not the norm for the millions of years of history of human evolution.
- afthonos 3y ago
  Ok, but like…that’s a bug, not a feature.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - fasterik 3y ago
    To me, this reflects a perfectionist mindset. Life is better today for billions of people than it has been at any other point in the history of the human species. If you consider it a "bug" that we don't live in some sort of utopia where everyone's dreams are fulfilled, maybe you need to change your expectations and view things in a larger historical perspective.