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I hate the National party as much as you and those are valid criticisms but you should take an honest look at what really happened here; The previous government

I hate the National party as much as you and those are valid criticisms but you should take an honest look at what really happened here; The previous government lost rather than the new one winning. https://pastebin.com/91S1BQ2B https://pastebin.com/91S1BQ2B Labour failed on the things they campaigned on like house prices and child poverty. The covid hero mask can only last so long. People have had enough of the woke policy, money wasted on endless consultants and race based shake downs, sky high cost of living, broken healthcare and so on. Anyway the thread is about PFAS so this is all quite tangential!

crtified 3y ago
It's ironic that almost everything in your long list of Labour's financial sins is equalled in $ by National's one single move of new tax-breaks for landlords. It puts into clear context the way that appearances trumped objectivity, when it came to the country's electoral fickleness. It's also ironic that what you're here lauding - the PFAS story - is an initiative which occurred under Ardern's government. It's not the kind of thing you'll be seeing in the results of the new one. So yes, the thread is about PFAS, but its secondary framing is that of lauding New Zealand for an environmental positive. And, in that same light, its quite relevant to mention in the same breath that New Zealand is also taking several, arguably much larger, steps backwards environmentally - pulling back the country's environmental focus, in favour of business and commercial interests, due to having elected a right-wing government which stands in stark contrast to the "kind, positive" aspirational style that the world remembers from Ardern. 'New Zealand leads the way environmentally' is a style of story the world will be seeing less of, the more terms this new government has.
- andersrs 3y ago
  I never said I was a National fan but I'm just providing you a perspective on why the country didn't like them because you seem very partisan. That list is how the swing voters see Labour. Labour had a majority and should have done a bunch of anti-landlord things while they could like capital gains tax or land tax. They have absolutely failed on housing and now it's sad to see a party of rent seekers in power. "New Zealand leads the way environmentally" - has been bullshit ever since Helen wanted sell dairy to China. Ardern's government were promoting tourism and excluding it from our carbon footprint. I did enjoy the tank drivers bitching about the ute tax as they call it.
  - crtified 3y ago
    There was no workable housing solution, under the circumstances. That's something the populace probably cannot accept. Disparate governments the world over face the same - for example, Australia just voted out their version of National, in favour of their version of Labour, based upon all the same resentments! a political mirror image, proving beyond doubt the fallacy of NZ's partisan blame - and they are finding they cannot policy-it-away. So yes, I am annoyed that we resentfully voted to make it actively worse. If that makes me partisan, then so-be-it. But I acknowledge that I am somewhat preaching to the choir with you, Sir Anders. As you described, "anti-woke" (among other things) won the day, and unfortunately, regressive large-scale environmental policy is one result of that, because the whole green movement is cast as an aspect of wokeness. There is no "shift to anti-wokeness" that doesn't also involve a net loss for the environment. And that is far more pertinent than PFAS in makeup, where New Zealand's environmental work is concerned. But I accept that I am unpopular for believing and speaking so.
    - andersrs 3y ago
      Unfortunately politics comes in sausage format only and each sausage contains something nasty. I'd like to have strong environmental policy while also not having wokeness shoved down my throat and my kids' throats. I'd like to support neither redneck ute drivers nor woke 'progressives'. As someone who dislikes the sausage format the right-wing user-pays argument is appealing to me. It takes all the spicy bits out of the sausage and let's people add their own sauces as they see fit. That all works great until you find out that right-wing's daddy owns a bunch of sauce companies that spill sauce everywhere. You're stuck with the same few awful sausages because the supermarket won't sell any new sausages unless they get 5% market share. Good chat.
    - someotherperson 3y ago
      > because the whole green movement is cast as an aspect of wokeness The "Green movement" is the quintessential example of what people consider wokeness because the "Green movement" is arguably the single handed worst thing to happen to the environment. Rejection of nuclear energy in favor of gas and goal (i.e the only other alternatives until a decade ago, and still the only other alternative until we develop better battery tech) is bananas, but that's somehow considered environmental in the eyes of the "Green movement." Moving to plastics to "save the trees" was an extension of that nonsense. > There is no "shift to anti-wokeness" that doesn't also involve a net loss for the environment You'll find that the most anti-woke people are the only pro-nuclear voices in Australasia.
ztetranz 3y ago
Chloe for Green co-leader -> PM!

crtified 3y ago

It's ironic that almost everything in your long list of Labour's financial sins is equalled in $ by National's one single move of new tax-breaks for landlords. It puts into clear context the way that appearances trumped objectivity, when it came to the country's electoral fickleness. It's also ironic that what you're here lauding - the PFAS story - is an initiative which occurred under Ardern's government. It's not the kind of thing you'll be seeing in the results of the new one. So yes, the thread is about PFAS, but its secondary framing is that of lauding New Zealand for an environmental positive. And, in that same light, its quite relevant to mention in the same breath that New Zealand is also taking several, arguably much larger, steps backwards environmentally - pulling back the country's environmental focus, in favour of business and commercial interests, due to having elected a right-wing government which stands in stark contrast to the "kind, positive" aspirational style that the world remembers from Ardern. 'New Zealand leads the way environmentally' is a style of story the world will be seeing less of, the more terms this new government has.

andersrs 3y ago
I never said I was a National fan but I'm just providing you a perspective on why the country didn't like them because you seem very partisan. That list is how the swing voters see Labour. Labour had a majority and should have done a bunch of anti-landlord things while they could like capital gains tax or land tax. They have absolutely failed on housing and now it's sad to see a party of rent seekers in power. "New Zealand leads the way environmentally" - has been bullshit ever since Helen wanted sell dairy to China. Ardern's government were promoting tourism and excluding it from our carbon footprint. I did enjoy the tank drivers bitching about the ute tax as they call it.
- crtified 3y ago
  There was no workable housing solution, under the circumstances. That's something the populace probably cannot accept. Disparate governments the world over face the same - for example, Australia just voted out their version of National, in favour of their version of Labour, based upon all the same resentments! a political mirror image, proving beyond doubt the fallacy of NZ's partisan blame - and they are finding they cannot policy-it-away. So yes, I am annoyed that we resentfully voted to make it actively worse. If that makes me partisan, then so-be-it. But I acknowledge that I am somewhat preaching to the choir with you, Sir Anders. As you described, "anti-woke" (among other things) won the day, and unfortunately, regressive large-scale environmental policy is one result of that, because the whole green movement is cast as an aspect of wokeness. There is no "shift to anti-wokeness" that doesn't also involve a net loss for the environment. And that is far more pertinent than PFAS in makeup, where New Zealand's environmental work is concerned. But I accept that I am unpopular for believing and speaking so.
  - andersrs 3y ago
    Unfortunately politics comes in sausage format only and each sausage contains something nasty. I'd like to have strong environmental policy while also not having wokeness shoved down my throat and my kids' throats. I'd like to support neither redneck ute drivers nor woke 'progressives'. As someone who dislikes the sausage format the right-wing user-pays argument is appealing to me. It takes all the spicy bits out of the sausage and let's people add their own sauces as they see fit. That all works great until you find out that right-wing's daddy owns a bunch of sauce companies that spill sauce everywhere. You're stuck with the same few awful sausages because the supermarket won't sell any new sausages unless they get 5% market share. Good chat.
  - someotherperson 3y ago
    > because the whole green movement is cast as an aspect of wokeness The "Green movement" is the quintessential example of what people consider wokeness because the "Green movement" is arguably the single handed worst thing to happen to the environment. Rejection of nuclear energy in favor of gas and goal (i.e the only other alternatives until a decade ago, and still the only other alternative until we develop better battery tech) is bananas, but that's somehow considered environmental in the eyes of the "Green movement." Moving to plastics to "save the trees" was an extension of that nonsense. > There is no "shift to anti-wokeness" that doesn't also involve a net loss for the environment You'll find that the most anti-woke people are the only pro-nuclear voices in Australasia.

ztetranz 3y ago

Chloe for Green co-leader -> PM!