7 ms·

And shelling Donetsk City is somehow different?

tehjoker 3y ago
I am also against the Ukraine war and believe a peaceful settlement is possible. NATO (the US) is using Ukraine to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian, though having to fight two wars at once is causing them to rethink their position. ICJ did rule against Russia, and it makes sense since they invaded, but the roots of the conflict go back to attacks on Donetsk like you say since 2014 and various aggressive moves by NATO since 1991 in violation of the gentleman's agreement. Basically, the US should not be supplying arms to these conflicts.
- Zetobal 3y ago
  gentleman's agreement... what a weird way to say there was no agreement.
  - clarionbell 3y ago
    Don't you know. Russians never mastered the art of written treaties. The Soviets were confused and thought that pinky swear (after all of the deception of cold war) is guarantee of future power sharing :D
    - tehjoker 3y ago
      It's not a big deal to admit that Gorbachev was a weak leader that gave away too much and aided the fall of the USSR.
    - justsomehnguy 3y ago
      > :D It's always refreshing to see what the West never does what it says, never did.
- roca 3y ago
  > NATO (the US) is using Ukraine to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian So you believe that most Ukrainians actually want to surrender to Russia?
  - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
    Maybe not 1/2 years ago, but look at the hundreds of videos of Ukrainian citizens being forcedly taken from the streets and thrown into the frontlines only to die shortly after. There were many voluntaries when the war started, now UA forced recruitment attempts are met with civilians filming and trying to stop them.
- Paradigma11 3y ago
  Here is Gorbachev about the gentleman's agreement: https://twitter.com/i/status/1749887239226617873 https://twitter.com/i/status/1749887239226617873
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- baud147258 3y ago
  > various aggressive moves by NATO since 1991 in violation of the gentleman's agreement. gentleman's agreement, which was never acknowledge by the US and was with the previous regime, unlike the written agreement _Russia_ signed recognizing Ukraine's independence and sovereignty, with their 1994 borders. And NATO wouldn't have expanded East if the countries in Eastern Europe didn't feel a need to join a defensive alliance.
- khokhol 3y ago
  The roots of the conflict go back to attacks on Donetsk and moves by NATO since 1991 All I can tell you is -- just because intellectual-sounding people like Chomsky, Mearsheimer et al; not to mention Putin himself -- whom you are apparently cribbing from, knowingly or otherwise -- say things like this, doesn't make it so. If you actually walk back and look at the event chronology you'll find there's no substantial basis for either of these narratives. NATO (the US) is using Ukraine to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian, The implication you are making here is that the Ukrainians at large have no real agency in the situation, and basically have no idea why they're actually fighting.

I am also against the Ukraine war and believe a peaceful settlement is possible. NATO (the US) is using Ukraine to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian, though having to fight two wars at once is causing them to rethink their position. ICJ did rule against Russia, and it makes sense since they invaded, but the roots of the conflict go back to attacks on Donetsk like you say since 2014 and various aggressive moves by NATO since 1991 in violation of the gentleman's agreement. Basically, the US should not be supplying arms to these conflicts.

Zetobal 3y ago
gentleman's agreement... what a weird way to say there was no agreement.
- clarionbell 3y ago
  Don't you know. Russians never mastered the art of written treaties. The Soviets were confused and thought that pinky swear (after all of the deception of cold war) is guarantee of future power sharing :D
  - tehjoker 3y ago
    It's not a big deal to admit that Gorbachev was a weak leader that gave away too much and aided the fall of the USSR.
  - justsomehnguy 3y ago
    > :D It's always refreshing to see what the West never does what it says, never did.
roca 3y ago
> NATO (the US) is using Ukraine to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian So you believe that most Ukrainians actually want to surrender to Russia?
- pastacacioepepe 3y ago
  Maybe not 1/2 years ago, but look at the hundreds of videos of Ukrainian citizens being forcedly taken from the streets and thrown into the frontlines only to die shortly after. There were many voluntaries when the war started, now UA forced recruitment attempts are met with civilians filming and trying to stop them.
Paradigma11 3y ago
Here is Gorbachev about the gentleman's agreement: https://twitter.com/i/status/1749887239226617873 https://twitter.com/i/status/1749887239226617873
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
baud147258 3y ago
> various aggressive moves by NATO since 1991 in violation of the gentleman's agreement. gentleman's agreement, which was never acknowledge by the US and was with the previous regime, unlike the written agreement _Russia_ signed recognizing Ukraine's independence and sovereignty, with their 1994 borders. And NATO wouldn't have expanded East if the countries in Eastern Europe didn't feel a need to join a defensive alliance.
khokhol 3y ago
The roots of the conflict go back to attacks on Donetsk and moves by NATO since 1991 All I can tell you is -- just because intellectual-sounding people like Chomsky, Mearsheimer et al; not to mention Putin himself -- whom you are apparently cribbing from, knowingly or otherwise -- say things like this, doesn't make it so. If you actually walk back and look at the event chronology you'll find there's no substantial basis for either of these narratives. NATO (the US) is using Ukraine to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian, The implication you are making here is that the Ukrainians at large have no real agency in the situation, and basically have no idea why they're actually fighting.