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When we upgraded our appliances, the "smart" or "wifi-enabled" ones were specifically avoided like the plague. "Dumb" appliances - especially fridges, for some

When we upgraded our appliances, the "smart" or "wifi-enabled" ones were specifically avoided like the plague. "Dumb" appliances - especially fridges, for some reason - are becoming hard to come by, but they do exist. Electrolux, KitchenAid, even LG all make some no-frills models that can save both money and frustration. Hopefully those companies continue serving the "luddite techie" market.

Brian_K_White 3y ago
Watch out for the LG "linear compressor", and it's in other brands too like Kenmore I think it was. Even without brains, new appliances are shit.
- krasin 3y ago
  Related: LG Settles Class-Action Lawsuit Over Refrigerator Compressors, https://www.consumerreports.org/lawsuits-settlements/lg-settles-class-action-lawsuit-over-refrigerator-compressors/ https://www.consumerreports.org/lawsuits-settlements/lg-sett...
arter4 3y ago
Yes, I agree. I'm not a luddite per se - heck, I make a living out of making stuff talk to one another on a network. But I don't get the appeal, from a customer standpoint, of having all physical objects talk to you or to the Internet. Like, why? I get it when it comes to alarm systems. Being able to get a notification when someone breaks in is nice, because the alarm system is mostly doing its job when you're not at home. It makes sense. What it does not make sense, in my humble opinion, is pretty much everything else. Why do I need voice activated lights, outside of a cool party trick ("hey, I can turn the lights on with my voice")? Why should a vacuum cleaner, even if a robot one, be able to upload a picture of a woman on the toilet to the Internet (which has actually happened)? Why should the fridge talk to you? Ironically, this kind of stuff might become less and less appealing with remote working. If you're at home anyway, can't you just stand up and look at the fridge or turn that light on?
- darreninthenet 3y ago
  Fridge/freezer one is handy for temperature and door open alarms
  - beAbU 3y ago
    Why? Just close the door properly. Ajust the feet so the fridge stands on a slight angle, so the door swings shut on it's own. What help is a temperature alarm if you are away. A fridge is used daily, surely you'll notice if the temperature is not what it's supposed to be.
    - darreninthenet 3y ago
      I really have no idea how to reply to this without sounding like an ass so apologies in advance. Well yeah duh if the door was shut properly every time fridges wouldn't need door or temperature alarms at all (most have an audible one already). But it's called an alarm for a reason, sometimes shit goes wrong and it's handy to know before all the food has been at room temperature all day. We had a freezer door pop open overnight once, because one of the drawers wasn't quite shut properly... in 40+ years of interacting with a fridge/freezer, yes occasionally mistakes are made I also have friends and family and at least one will be aware and be willing to go to the house if necessary when we are away (only happened once when our intruder alarm went off for no apparent reason) and my neighbours would also pop in if I was at work. Seriously your response showed such a lack of thinking of real world situations and usage I can only assume you work for the Google UI team or something
      - jventura 3y ago
        My dumb LG freezer plays a “ping ping ping” tune whenever the door is not properly closed after a few seconds. No need to send a smartphone notification!
        darreninthenet 3y ago
        If you're home or not upstairs asleep I guess it's sufficient
vladvasiliu 3y ago
> all make some no-frills models that can save both money and frustration Actually, those features seem to have become so common that they don't seem to command a price premium anymore. My washing machine was the cheapest that ticked all the boxes I wanted (most importantly size), and it still has some kind of wifi thingy. Ditto for my dishwasher. They both work perfectly well without any connection to anything, and not once have they even tried to get me to connect them. For the washing machine, a notification that it's done can be useful. I usually do laundry while I'm either working or playing some game, so 9 out of 10 times I won't hear that it's done and forget to take the clothes out. Now I've taken the habit of setting an alarm to check on it after the estimated time is up. For the dishwasher, I really don't care. The dishes can stay there until I need them.
- ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
  > They both work perfectly well without any connection to anything, and not once have they even tried to get me to connect them. Is there an open Wi-Fi network nearby?
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    Not that I know of, and you actually have to go out of your way to turn the Wifi on and connect. They have indicator lights that are off. And it's not like they're TVs, I doubt they'd be able to show me any add on their 7-segment displays. So I'm not sure what would be the benefit of trying to connect to a network and let LG know that I've washed some clothes.
al_borland 3y ago
We should also hope they remain cheaper, and companies don’t start selling the “smart” appliances for less with the idea that they can somehow makeup for it on data collection or ongoing upsells and subscriptions.
- comboy 3y ago
  I wouldn't. Cost to make a device "smart" is much less than $1 in parts, app and infrastructure are not rocket science and even with no evil intentions you get very valuable data on usage, what breaks first, environment, location etc. Seems like a no-brainer. Those will soon also not require you to connect them to your wifi, NB-IoT both chips and plans cost for businesses are already very good.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    Where are you shopping that you can find a 20" touch screen for under a dollar?
    - comboy 3y ago
      Sure, touchscreen is expensive, but if you just have notification on your phone that the door is not closed properly that's already considered "smart". Basically anything connecting to your home network is advertised as such.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    > app and infrastructure are not rocket science Thanks to Tuya, the software and infra side for making a garbage-quality IoT device is effectively free now. You may be surprised just how much of those you have around you. Any random device class that suddenly gained optional "control through app/voice assistants" feature is likely Tuya in disguise - magic of white-label IoT.
Semaphor 3y ago
Is that hyperbole regarding fridges, or is it really that bad in the USA? Here in Germany, the vast majority of fridges are still just fridges.
- madaxe_again 3y ago
  And they just work. I’ve fridges going back 30 years which have never had so much as a compressor pump fail. Boring under-counter units, fridge/freezer stacked units, etc. I think the European market is different, in general.
- willbush 3y ago
  A person over here https://slrpnk.net/comment/4749319 https://slrpnk.net/comment/4749319 said >The EU just made it so that any new major appliance must be repaired by the maker for 10 years I'm not sure how true that is, but I set by VPN Dublin, Ireland and did some shopping to see what brands are avaliable. Lot of interesting brands I ran across: BEKO BOSCH CANDY HOOVER HOTPOINT INDESIT LIEBHERR MIELE NORDMENDE NORKO POWERPOINT SIEMENS TCL WHIRLPOOL Really surprising to my that a Bosch / Miele can be had for less than $1000. In the US, it’s hard to find anything less than $3k in those brands. I have seen some places around here sell Beko, but only in white.
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    There’s more of a difference than just smart/not-smart, though. US tends to have those giant two-door fridges, we usually have single-door, stacked, fridge-freezer combinations.
qwertox 3y ago
I've "smartified" my washing machine by using as smart plug with included power meter. This gives me all the info I want to know about the washing machine and there are no vendors spying on my washing habits. When the replacement thermostat of my fridge broke I replaced it with an ESP32 with a DS18B20 and a relay, now it posts temperature data to a logging server and the temperature range can be adjusted over WiFi when needed. Here again, I guess if it were really smart, that this would mean that the vendor would place the requirement of me sharing all the data with them so that they then give me a subset of data.
- madaxe_again 3y ago
  I’ve done the same with my washing machine, and a tiny bit of automation has homeassistant tell me when the laundry is done.
MilaM 3y ago
I also avoided smart appliances when replacing an oven and a washing machine recently. I would have considered them, though, if the "smart" part was based on the matter/thread standard. What I don't want, for sure, are appliances that need an internet connection using my Wi-Fi and only work with the manufacturer's app.
mlrtime 3y ago
I'm a little confused about these fridge posts. There are refrigerators that do not have any tech that will last [most likely] longer than you stay in your home. I've had multiple Subzero basic commodity or commercial refrigerators last 15-20 years with only minor parts replacements which are easily found. Of course these are not cheap, but isn't that what everyone here is asking for? Something made well that lasts a long time? They don't look fancy at all and nobody even knows it's a Subzero because there are no labels on it and no stainless steel front.
- jader201 3y ago
  I had never heard of Subzero before this post, and just looked them up. $10k-$15k for a refrigerator? I’ve only ever owned fairly “basic” refrigerators (e.g. LG or GE), that are about 1/10 of that cost, and have never had any problems with them going out or even degrading in quality (e.g. 10+ years). Maybe needed an ice maker repair, but that’s about it. Do people need to spend that kind of money for a refrigerator that lasts? Maybe if you’re going to be in your home for 30-40 years, but not many people stay in one place long enough to outlive these “basic” refrigerators. And even then, I’d argue that a $1k-$2k refrigerator can still last that long. (I’m using “basic” in quotes here because I feel like our refrigerators weren’t even the bottom tier — they’re quite large, and have the features we need. But now seeing other brands that cost as much as some vehicles, to some they may seem basic.)
  - dreamcompiler 3y ago
    Subzero became a "status" brand in the US 25 years ago. It's common to find them in US kitchens that are designed to impress rather than to cook in. (Just like Viking ranges.) Subzero might in fact be a decent-quality fridge--I have no idea because I refuse to pay a status tax on appliances.
    - mlrtime 3y ago
      "I have no idea" but I have strong negative opinions. Designed to impress who? You can't tell a SZ fridge by looking at it, there are usually no labels. I know of a few professional chefs who buy these fridges, does that mean they are just buying them to impress?
paganel 3y ago
> luddite techie" market. I honestly wonder how big that market has gotten in the last few years, and I’m including software/services in it. I know I’m definitely part of that market and also that the most technophile people from my list of friends and acquaintances are mostly working in non-tech industries. For example I was very surprised when visiting an acquaintance that works in the media and the first thing he did when he entered the house was to “talk” with Alexa, we have such a device at home but to this day it still is unboxed, hence uninstalled (received it at an IT event).
tlonny 3y ago
I bought the wife a "thermomix" because she was ranting/raving about how great it is. Its a glorified blender with a heating element that cost (at the time) well over a grand. Its only after I bought it (and the free trial expired) that I discovered that an additional subscription is required to use the integrated "cooking recipe" service that guides you through cooking various dishes - insanely cheeky given how much it cost! To top it off, I'm constantly nagged to connect the thing to WiFi so it can update god-knows-what. Never. Again.
- eutropia 3y ago
  Vitamix blenders blend hard enough that the friction of the blades in the liquid can bring your soup to a simmer, fwiw.

Brian_K_White 3y ago

Watch out for the LG "linear compressor", and it's in other brands too like Kenmore I think it was. Even without brains, new appliances are shit.

krasin 3y ago
Related: LG Settles Class-Action Lawsuit Over Refrigerator Compressors, https://www.consumerreports.org/lawsuits-settlements/lg-settles-class-action-lawsuit-over-refrigerator-compressors/ https://www.consumerreports.org/lawsuits-settlements/lg-sett...

arter4 3y ago

Yes, I agree. I'm not a luddite per se - heck, I make a living out of making stuff talk to one another on a network. But I don't get the appeal, from a customer standpoint, of having all physical objects talk to you or to the Internet. Like, why? I get it when it comes to alarm systems. Being able to get a notification when someone breaks in is nice, because the alarm system is mostly doing its job when you're not at home. It makes sense. What it does not make sense, in my humble opinion, is pretty much everything else. Why do I need voice activated lights, outside of a cool party trick ("hey, I can turn the lights on with my voice")? Why should a vacuum cleaner, even if a robot one, be able to upload a picture of a woman on the toilet to the Internet (which has actually happened)? Why should the fridge talk to you? Ironically, this kind of stuff might become less and less appealing with remote working. If you're at home anyway, can't you just stand up and look at the fridge or turn that light on?

darreninthenet 3y ago
Fridge/freezer one is handy for temperature and door open alarms
- beAbU 3y ago
  Why? Just close the door properly. Ajust the feet so the fridge stands on a slight angle, so the door swings shut on it's own. What help is a temperature alarm if you are away. A fridge is used daily, surely you'll notice if the temperature is not what it's supposed to be.
  - darreninthenet 3y ago
    I really have no idea how to reply to this without sounding like an ass so apologies in advance. Well yeah duh if the door was shut properly every time fridges wouldn't need door or temperature alarms at all (most have an audible one already). But it's called an alarm for a reason, sometimes shit goes wrong and it's handy to know before all the food has been at room temperature all day. We had a freezer door pop open overnight once, because one of the drawers wasn't quite shut properly... in 40+ years of interacting with a fridge/freezer, yes occasionally mistakes are made I also have friends and family and at least one will be aware and be willing to go to the house if necessary when we are away (only happened once when our intruder alarm went off for no apparent reason) and my neighbours would also pop in if I was at work. Seriously your response showed such a lack of thinking of real world situations and usage I can only assume you work for the Google UI team or something
    - jventura 3y ago
      My dumb LG freezer plays a “ping ping ping” tune whenever the door is not properly closed after a few seconds. No need to send a smartphone notification!
      - darreninthenet 3y ago
        If you're home or not upstairs asleep I guess it's sufficient

vladvasiliu 3y ago

> all make some no-frills models that can save both money and frustration Actually, those features seem to have become so common that they don't seem to command a price premium anymore. My washing machine was the cheapest that ticked all the boxes I wanted (most importantly size), and it still has some kind of wifi thingy. Ditto for my dishwasher. They both work perfectly well without any connection to anything, and not once have they even tried to get me to connect them. For the washing machine, a notification that it's done can be useful. I usually do laundry while I'm either working or playing some game, so 9 out of 10 times I won't hear that it's done and forget to take the clothes out. Now I've taken the habit of setting an alarm to check on it after the estimated time is up. For the dishwasher, I really don't care. The dishes can stay there until I need them.

ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
> They both work perfectly well without any connection to anything, and not once have they even tried to get me to connect them. Is there an open Wi-Fi network nearby?
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  Not that I know of, and you actually have to go out of your way to turn the Wifi on and connect. They have indicator lights that are off. And it's not like they're TVs, I doubt they'd be able to show me any add on their 7-segment displays. So I'm not sure what would be the benefit of trying to connect to a network and let LG know that I've washed some clothes.

al_borland 3y ago

We should also hope they remain cheaper, and companies don’t start selling the “smart” appliances for less with the idea that they can somehow makeup for it on data collection or ongoing upsells and subscriptions.

comboy 3y ago
I wouldn't. Cost to make a device "smart" is much less than $1 in parts, app and infrastructure are not rocket science and even with no evil intentions you get very valuable data on usage, what breaks first, environment, location etc. Seems like a no-brainer. Those will soon also not require you to connect them to your wifi, NB-IoT both chips and plans cost for businesses are already very good.
- thfuran 3y ago
  Where are you shopping that you can find a 20" touch screen for under a dollar?
  - comboy 3y ago
    Sure, touchscreen is expensive, but if you just have notification on your phone that the door is not closed properly that's already considered "smart". Basically anything connecting to your home network is advertised as such.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  > app and infrastructure are not rocket science Thanks to Tuya, the software and infra side for making a garbage-quality IoT device is effectively free now. You may be surprised just how much of those you have around you. Any random device class that suddenly gained optional "control through app/voice assistants" feature is likely Tuya in disguise - magic of white-label IoT.

Semaphor 3y ago

Is that hyperbole regarding fridges, or is it really that bad in the USA? Here in Germany, the vast majority of fridges are still just fridges.

madaxe_again 3y ago
And they just work. I’ve fridges going back 30 years which have never had so much as a compressor pump fail. Boring under-counter units, fridge/freezer stacked units, etc. I think the European market is different, in general.
willbush 3y ago
A person over here https://slrpnk.net/comment/4749319 https://slrpnk.net/comment/4749319 said >The EU just made it so that any new major appliance must be repaired by the maker for 10 years I'm not sure how true that is, but I set by VPN Dublin, Ireland and did some shopping to see what brands are avaliable. Lot of interesting brands I ran across: BEKO BOSCH CANDY HOOVER HOTPOINT INDESIT LIEBHERR MIELE NORDMENDE NORKO POWERPOINT SIEMENS TCL WHIRLPOOL Really surprising to my that a Bosch / Miele can be had for less than $1000. In the US, it’s hard to find anything less than $3k in those brands. I have seen some places around here sell Beko, but only in white.
- Semaphor 3y ago
  There’s more of a difference than just smart/not-smart, though. US tends to have those giant two-door fridges, we usually have single-door, stacked, fridge-freezer combinations.

qwertox 3y ago

I've "smartified" my washing machine by using as smart plug with included power meter. This gives me all the info I want to know about the washing machine and there are no vendors spying on my washing habits. When the replacement thermostat of my fridge broke I replaced it with an ESP32 with a DS18B20 and a relay, now it posts temperature data to a logging server and the temperature range can be adjusted over WiFi when needed. Here again, I guess if it were really smart, that this would mean that the vendor would place the requirement of me sharing all the data with them so that they then give me a subset of data.

madaxe_again 3y ago
I’ve done the same with my washing machine, and a tiny bit of automation has homeassistant tell me when the laundry is done.

MilaM 3y ago

I also avoided smart appliances when replacing an oven and a washing machine recently. I would have considered them, though, if the "smart" part was based on the matter/thread standard. What I don't want, for sure, are appliances that need an internet connection using my Wi-Fi and only work with the manufacturer's app.

mlrtime 3y ago

I'm a little confused about these fridge posts. There are refrigerators that do not have any tech that will last [most likely] longer than you stay in your home. I've had multiple Subzero basic commodity or commercial refrigerators last 15-20 years with only minor parts replacements which are easily found. Of course these are not cheap, but isn't that what everyone here is asking for? Something made well that lasts a long time? They don't look fancy at all and nobody even knows it's a Subzero because there are no labels on it and no stainless steel front.

jader201 3y ago
I had never heard of Subzero before this post, and just looked them up. $10k-$15k for a refrigerator? I’ve only ever owned fairly “basic” refrigerators (e.g. LG or GE), that are about 1/10 of that cost, and have never had any problems with them going out or even degrading in quality (e.g. 10+ years). Maybe needed an ice maker repair, but that’s about it. Do people need to spend that kind of money for a refrigerator that lasts? Maybe if you’re going to be in your home for 30-40 years, but not many people stay in one place long enough to outlive these “basic” refrigerators. And even then, I’d argue that a $1k-$2k refrigerator can still last that long. (I’m using “basic” in quotes here because I feel like our refrigerators weren’t even the bottom tier — they’re quite large, and have the features we need. But now seeing other brands that cost as much as some vehicles, to some they may seem basic.)
- dreamcompiler 3y ago
  Subzero became a "status" brand in the US 25 years ago. It's common to find them in US kitchens that are designed to impress rather than to cook in. (Just like Viking ranges.) Subzero might in fact be a decent-quality fridge--I have no idea because I refuse to pay a status tax on appliances.
  - mlrtime 3y ago
    "I have no idea" but I have strong negative opinions. Designed to impress who? You can't tell a SZ fridge by looking at it, there are usually no labels. I know of a few professional chefs who buy these fridges, does that mean they are just buying them to impress?

paganel 3y ago

> luddite techie" market. I honestly wonder how big that market has gotten in the last few years, and I’m including software/services in it. I know I’m definitely part of that market and also that the most technophile people from my list of friends and acquaintances are mostly working in non-tech industries. For example I was very surprised when visiting an acquaintance that works in the media and the first thing he did when he entered the house was to “talk” with Alexa, we have such a device at home but to this day it still is unboxed, hence uninstalled (received it at an IT event).

tlonny 3y ago

I bought the wife a "thermomix" because she was ranting/raving about how great it is. Its a glorified blender with a heating element that cost (at the time) well over a grand. Its only after I bought it (and the free trial expired) that I discovered that an additional subscription is required to use the integrated "cooking recipe" service that guides you through cooking various dishes - insanely cheeky given how much it cost! To top it off, I'm constantly nagged to connect the thing to WiFi so it can update god-knows-what. Never. Again.

eutropia 3y ago
Vitamix blenders blend hard enough that the friction of the blades in the liquid can bring your soup to a simmer, fwiw.