5 ms·

> we are only talking about $16-50k for electricity, that seems pretty small I suppose this depends greatly on how you view the utility of LLMs. In a capitalis

> we are only talking about $16-50k for electricity, that seems pretty small I suppose this depends greatly on how you view the utility of LLMs. In a capitalist sense, sure—there's great utility here persuading VCs to part with their coins and jobs to be replaced with correspondingly larger profit margins. But the opportunity cost of not solving major problems most of humanity can agree on seems nearly incalculably large. Not that capitalists give a shit.

wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
This is a process of exploring new technology. Research is expensive and probably doesnt always yield immediate returns, but when it does you get infinite returns. Imagine how not obvious the first machines must have seemed at the start of the industrial revolution. You only have to feed a man and he can work, but a machine requires iron, oil, water, fuel, engineers, operators. The up front cost for exploring early digging machines must have been absurd. And im sure some people at the time thought: "Wow we could be spending this money on bread for the poor instead." Arent you glad we didnt.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- antonvs 3y ago
  If we had spent the money on bread for the poor instead, we wouldn't be facing an existential threat created by our lack of understanding of the consequences of our actions, and our collective inability to respond to that effectively.
  - wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
    Consider the world before industry... You really want to have 10 kids and have 50% or more of them die before 10 years old? You want a world before penecillin and antibiotics? No computers? No travel. Women getting marrried off at 15 immediatly pregnant. Most of the world in absolute poverty. Destroyed by a single bad season. Mass famines, plagues, tribal warfare that sweeps over your village. No clean water and soap. malnutrition. These are just non problems for huge portions of the planet now.
FLT8 3y ago
What if investing in AI tech like LLMs eventually allows knowledge workers to be more productive with fewer resources, and therefore ultimately frees up more people to focus on the so-called major problems? Maybe we can invest more human hours in speeding up the path to zero emissions and energy abundance, or re-planting deserts, or cleaning up forever chemicals / microplastics, or helping at-risk kids, etc etc.
- wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
  not disagreeing, but sidenote, many of the issues causing the human issues may be semi orthogonal to the level of technology going forward. We already have enough resources for the poor amd hungry and homeless. Its behavioural issues we dont know how to fix. How to bootstrap a crackhead into a bank teller, so to speak. i hope the bottom 10% rung on a dyson sphere society doesnt just look like hungry homeless people, but on a space station.
  - Nevermark 3y ago
    > Its behavioural issues we dont know how to fix Or how to tax labor no greater than capital. Or view quality education and healthcare for children, and keeping their parents out of survival mode, as a much better investment for everyone, than funding the adventures of overly war happy presidents. I am enthusiastically agreeing with you. Behavioral changes at the top and bottom of society are most of the problem - not tech.
    - wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
      I live in japan and they have implemented what you are requesting. ive recently been to a relatives house here where they live off government handouts despite having jobs. the government pays the woman for having children. as you can imagine this is a perverse incentive. She and her four ish children have jobs. Despite collectively having more than 100k a year to work with, they live in essentially a dirty crack house with a toilet that hasnt worked for years. They fight over money and emotionally blackmail family to get 1-10k dollars at a time, and never pay it back. Being poor like this is not a money problem. Its a behaviour problem. You cant fix this by giving them money. They just spend it on alcohol and cigarettes. Having interacted with them I know they arent obviously stupid and they are educated. My wife attended the same strict japanese school. Very high quality compared to an average american school, they made it up through calculus as high schoolers. She still remembers reiman sums 15 years later. Your current perception of the world isnt quite right. It sounds like youve got this magic fix in your head, but in reality it just wouldnt work. Youre ignoring the thing you profess to actually care about... the people.

wegfawefgawefg 3y ago

This is a process of exploring new technology. Research is expensive and probably doesnt always yield immediate returns, but when it does you get infinite returns. Imagine how not obvious the first machines must have seemed at the start of the industrial revolution. You only have to feed a man and he can work, but a machine requires iron, oil, water, fuel, engineers, operators. The up front cost for exploring early digging machines must have been absurd. And im sure some people at the time thought: "Wow we could be spending this money on bread for the poor instead." Arent you glad we didnt.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
antonvs 3y ago
If we had spent the money on bread for the poor instead, we wouldn't be facing an existential threat created by our lack of understanding of the consequences of our actions, and our collective inability to respond to that effectively.
- wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
  Consider the world before industry... You really want to have 10 kids and have 50% or more of them die before 10 years old? You want a world before penecillin and antibiotics? No computers? No travel. Women getting marrried off at 15 immediatly pregnant. Most of the world in absolute poverty. Destroyed by a single bad season. Mass famines, plagues, tribal warfare that sweeps over your village. No clean water and soap. malnutrition. These are just non problems for huge portions of the planet now.

FLT8 3y ago

What if investing in AI tech like LLMs eventually allows knowledge workers to be more productive with fewer resources, and therefore ultimately frees up more people to focus on the so-called major problems? Maybe we can invest more human hours in speeding up the path to zero emissions and energy abundance, or re-planting deserts, or cleaning up forever chemicals / microplastics, or helping at-risk kids, etc etc.

wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
not disagreeing, but sidenote, many of the issues causing the human issues may be semi orthogonal to the level of technology going forward. We already have enough resources for the poor amd hungry and homeless. Its behavioural issues we dont know how to fix. How to bootstrap a crackhead into a bank teller, so to speak. i hope the bottom 10% rung on a dyson sphere society doesnt just look like hungry homeless people, but on a space station.
- Nevermark 3y ago
  > Its behavioural issues we dont know how to fix Or how to tax labor no greater than capital. Or view quality education and healthcare for children, and keeping their parents out of survival mode, as a much better investment for everyone, than funding the adventures of overly war happy presidents. I am enthusiastically agreeing with you. Behavioral changes at the top and bottom of society are most of the problem - not tech.
  - wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
    I live in japan and they have implemented what you are requesting. ive recently been to a relatives house here where they live off government handouts despite having jobs. the government pays the woman for having children. as you can imagine this is a perverse incentive. She and her four ish children have jobs. Despite collectively having more than 100k a year to work with, they live in essentially a dirty crack house with a toilet that hasnt worked for years. They fight over money and emotionally blackmail family to get 1-10k dollars at a time, and never pay it back. Being poor like this is not a money problem. Its a behaviour problem. You cant fix this by giving them money. They just spend it on alcohol and cigarettes. Having interacted with them I know they arent obviously stupid and they are educated. My wife attended the same strict japanese school. Very high quality compared to an average american school, they made it up through calculus as high schoolers. She still remembers reiman sums 15 years later. Your current perception of the world isnt quite right. It sounds like youve got this magic fix in your head, but in reality it just wouldnt work. Youre ignoring the thing you profess to actually care about... the people.