13 ms·

The cognitive dissonance people have around this issue is astonishing. We are willing to ground the 737MAX fleet when a few people get a (surely terrifying) op

by ylhert 3y ago

The cognitive dissonance people have around this issue is astonishing. We are willing to ground the 737MAX fleet when a few people get a (surely terrifying) open air flying experience; but 44,000 people are killed on the road in the US _every_ year (and rising!) and very few people seem to care. In most age cohorts, death by car is the largest killer. In the US you have a 1 in 107 chance of dying in a car crash in your lifetime. Even simple and completely reasonable measures to reduce these insane numbers are seen as some kind of tyrannical affront to ones freedom (see the current CA measure to add speed limiters). The car industry, car culture, and car centric thinking in the US and much of the world is totally out of control.

npteljes 3y ago
I too have thought a lot about this cognitive dissonance. I think that there are several differences to the two issues, and so, in people's attitude towards it too. One, I think, is that flying is something that is being done to us, and driving is something that we do ourselves. So the agency, the point of view is very different. Something bad happening while being passive is much more horrifying because of the powerlessness. The other is that cars and driving environments differ a lot, while planes are much more similar to each other. What I mean by this is that it's easier to dissociate the car deaths, because that happens to some other people over there, nothing like me, but plane badness happens to everyday folk in a big winged tube, like me. I think that if we drove the planes ourselves, the issues would be much more similar. And similarly, if everyone took the train, the bus, or a ship, and similar things would happen to a train, bus or ship, the freakout would be similar to what we see now with planes.
- nayuki 3y ago
  > is that flying is something that is being done to us, and driving is something that we do ourselves. So the agency, the point of view is very different. Correct. An all-too-popular viewpoint is, "I'm a good driver, unlike everybody else on the road!". > if everyone took the train, the bus, or a ship, and similar things would happen to a train, bus or ship, the freakout would be similar to what we see now with planes I believe this is the case already. A train or bus kills a few hundred a year, it makes national news for a week. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy and needs to be fixed. But then, those 44k car-related deaths are continually brushed aside.
  - IggleSniggle 3y ago
    Even if you know you aren't a good driver, you would still carry around the idea that it was your own fault for not being a better driver. Its really the level of personal agency involved (and the sense of that agency being taken away) that causes the brushing aside.
  - scoofy 3y ago
    The illusion of control. Most humans are instinctual predisposed to it, and it generally has to be unlearned. It's why blackjack is much more popular than roulette in a casino, even though there is much more room to play blackjack sub-optimally, but effectively zero chance of playing roulette in a way that hurts your chances of winning.
- MBlume 3y ago
  If you're a child, or someone too disabled to drive, driving is consistently something being done to you
  - npteljes 3y ago
    I don't think that this is relevant, when discussing the cognitive dissonance between car and plane accidents, on the population scale.
- NoPicklez 3y ago
  I agree with this a lot. I think the dissonance is surely curbed when sitting in a plane at cruising altitude realising that I am much more worried if these engines break down as opposed to my car, as I am likely to fall out of the sky. Planes if broken down fall from the sky. Cars that breakdown don't. The people operating the plane are well trained, any tom dick and harry can drive a car without any check on their mental and physical state before they hop behind the wheel.
pyinstallwoes 3y ago
But how many crashes are from the same model and from engineering vs pilot error?
nuancebydefault 3y ago
1 death by car crash in 107 in a lifetime, meaning 106 other ways of dying in a lifetime. Everything is relative.

by ylhert 3y ago

npteljes 3y ago

I too have thought a lot about this cognitive dissonance. I think that there are several differences to the two issues, and so, in people's attitude towards it too. One, I think, is that flying is something that is being done to us, and driving is something that we do ourselves. So the agency, the point of view is very different. Something bad happening while being passive is much more horrifying because of the powerlessness. The other is that cars and driving environments differ a lot, while planes are much more similar to each other. What I mean by this is that it's easier to dissociate the car deaths, because that happens to some other people over there, nothing like me, but plane badness happens to everyday folk in a big winged tube, like me. I think that if we drove the planes ourselves, the issues would be much more similar. And similarly, if everyone took the train, the bus, or a ship, and similar things would happen to a train, bus or ship, the freakout would be similar to what we see now with planes.

nayuki 3y ago
> is that flying is something that is being done to us, and driving is something that we do ourselves. So the agency, the point of view is very different. Correct. An all-too-popular viewpoint is, "I'm a good driver, unlike everybody else on the road!". > if everyone took the train, the bus, or a ship, and similar things would happen to a train, bus or ship, the freakout would be similar to what we see now with planes I believe this is the case already. A train or bus kills a few hundred a year, it makes national news for a week. Don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy and needs to be fixed. But then, those 44k car-related deaths are continually brushed aside.
- IggleSniggle 3y ago
  Even if you know you aren't a good driver, you would still carry around the idea that it was your own fault for not being a better driver. Its really the level of personal agency involved (and the sense of that agency being taken away) that causes the brushing aside.
- scoofy 3y ago
  The illusion of control. Most humans are instinctual predisposed to it, and it generally has to be unlearned. It's why blackjack is much more popular than roulette in a casino, even though there is much more room to play blackjack sub-optimally, but effectively zero chance of playing roulette in a way that hurts your chances of winning.
MBlume 3y ago
If you're a child, or someone too disabled to drive, driving is consistently something being done to you
- npteljes 3y ago
  I don't think that this is relevant, when discussing the cognitive dissonance between car and plane accidents, on the population scale.
NoPicklez 3y ago
I agree with this a lot. I think the dissonance is surely curbed when sitting in a plane at cruising altitude realising that I am much more worried if these engines break down as opposed to my car, as I am likely to fall out of the sky. Planes if broken down fall from the sky. Cars that breakdown don't. The people operating the plane are well trained, any tom dick and harry can drive a car without any check on their mental and physical state before they hop behind the wheel.

pyinstallwoes 3y ago

But how many crashes are from the same model and from engineering vs pilot error?

nuancebydefault 3y ago

1 death by car crash in 107 in a lifetime, meaning 106 other ways of dying in a lifetime. Everything is relative.