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Do you really think this is possible? Can you name a single state in the world with a majority muslim population that hasn't adopted any laws based on religion

by TimPC 3y ago

Do you really think this is possible? Can you name a single state in the world with a majority muslim population that hasn't adopted any laws based on religion or passed any laws that discriminate against non-muslims? Do you think it's realistic that if Israel is replaced by a new state tomorrow that has a majority arab muslim population it won't quickly become somewhat theocratic and enforce some degree of religious law against people of other religions? I think this outside view of a one state solution pretends the entire population of Israel believes in some sort of Western Democratic values and will provide a strong foundation of individual rights. I just don't see good evidence for that.

Mandain62 3y ago
> Can you name a single state in the world with a majority muslim population that hasn't adopted any laws based on religion or passed any laws that discriminate against non-muslims? Ironically this can be applied on isreal which declare itself Jewish state and have law of return [1] which allow any Jewish a right to "come" to isreal but does not extend the same to arab who were kicked during establishment of isreal [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return
- TimPC 3y ago
  I'm not arguing there shouldn't be two states. I see the best path forward as likely Israel existing as a Jewish state and Palestine existing as a Muslim state. I don't think either side has a majority population willing to exist in a state with absolute freedom of religion and no religious policies. Far fewer people live as oppressed minorities if there are two states than if there is one.
  - toyg 3y ago
    In other words, separate but equal! Where did I hear that already? The state of the debate on this problem is so shockingly bad, it dishonours the long tradition of superb Jewish intellectuals.
    - dang 3y ago
      Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN generally, and especially not in this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
charred_patina 3y ago
> Can you name a single state in the world with a majority muslim population that hasn't adopted any laws based on religion or passed any laws that discriminate against non-muslims? I don't know that Turkey has zero discriminatory laws against non-muslims, but they managed to operate as a secular state for almost 100 years before Erdogan. > Do you think it's realistic that if Israel is replaced by a new state tomorrow that has a majority arab muslim population it won't quickly become somewhat theocratic and enforce some degree of religious law against people of other religions? I have no way of knowing this. > I think this outside view of a one state solution pretends the entire population of Israel believes in some sort of Western Democratic values and will provide a strong foundation of individual rights. I just don't see good evidence for that. Noam Chomsky and Norm Finkelstein both agree with you on this point, and I tend to agree with them. My argument was not that a one-state solution was viable, but I was trying to get the OP to say if their idea of Zionism was exclusionary or not. Personally I do not think that a one-state solution would be possible unless mass de-radicalization took place, because Israeli ethno-nationalists see coexistence as genocide. I think the most viable option is a two-state solution, where a competent Palestinian standing army could hopefully force some sort of detente.

by TimPC 3y ago

Mandain62 3y ago

> Can you name a single state in the world with a majority muslim population that hasn't adopted any laws based on religion or passed any laws that discriminate against non-muslims? Ironically this can be applied on isreal which declare itself Jewish state and have law of return [1] which allow any Jewish a right to "come" to isreal but does not extend the same to arab who were kicked during establishment of isreal [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return

TimPC 3y ago
I'm not arguing there shouldn't be two states. I see the best path forward as likely Israel existing as a Jewish state and Palestine existing as a Muslim state. I don't think either side has a majority population willing to exist in a state with absolute freedom of religion and no religious policies. Far fewer people live as oppressed minorities if there are two states than if there is one.
- toyg 3y ago
  In other words, separate but equal! Where did I hear that already? The state of the debate on this problem is so shockingly bad, it dishonours the long tradition of superb Jewish intellectuals.
  - dang 3y ago
    Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN generally, and especially not in this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

charred_patina 3y ago

> Can you name a single state in the world with a majority muslim population that hasn't adopted any laws based on religion or passed any laws that discriminate against non-muslims? I don't know that Turkey has zero discriminatory laws against non-muslims, but they managed to operate as a secular state for almost 100 years before Erdogan. > Do you think it's realistic that if Israel is replaced by a new state tomorrow that has a majority arab muslim population it won't quickly become somewhat theocratic and enforce some degree of religious law against people of other religions? I have no way of knowing this. > I think this outside view of a one state solution pretends the entire population of Israel believes in some sort of Western Democratic values and will provide a strong foundation of individual rights. I just don't see good evidence for that. Noam Chomsky and Norm Finkelstein both agree with you on this point, and I tend to agree with them. My argument was not that a one-state solution was viable, but I was trying to get the OP to say if their idea of Zionism was exclusionary or not. Personally I do not think that a one-state solution would be possible unless mass de-radicalization took place, because Israeli ethno-nationalists see coexistence as genocide. I think the most viable option is a two-state solution, where a competent Palestinian standing army could hopefully force some sort of detente.