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Have they? You need to substantiate that claim. 1. Developers can continue to use the existing terms. 2. If a smaller developer elects to use the new terms, t

by dann0 3y ago

Have they? You need to substantiate that claim. 1. Developers can continue to use the existing terms. 2. If a smaller developer elects to use the new terms, they pay less commission (10%) and a 3% transaction fee. That’s 2% less. 3. If they have more than 1 million users download their app, then there is an additional €0.50 Core Technology fee. If the developer is a commercial entity, then yes, they have to pay but in reality, it’s the end user that will have to pay. 3. If the app is free but offered by a commercial entity, they pay nothing in commission or payment fees (13% X $0 ) but they reach 1 million installs, then they do have to pay €500k. If the business has no revenue - that’s a weird business model. 4. If the app is offered by a not for profit, then they don’t pay the CTF. So, the new terms seem better for developers and users in the EU.

firejake308 3y ago
> If the app is free but offered by a commercial entity, they pay nothing in commission or payment fees (13% X $0 ) but they reach 1 million installs, then they do have to pay €500k. If the business has no revenue - that’s a weird business model. I think that "growth first, revenue later" is actually a fairly popular business model, and I can imagine a lot of my own app ideas reaching 1M downloads with <$500k revenue (in an ideal world, but still)
- dann0 3y ago
  Again, that’s a choice you’ve made. I’d argue that a number way less than 1 million installs would signify enough success to start charging for
pzo 3y ago
it seems reinstall and app updates also counts - it's not just 1 million new app install a year but probably also: 1. You made a one time paid app. If in the first year you got 2M installs and sold app for 5$ you are profitable, but next year if those users who already paid will make an app update then you will own ~$1M to apple for those app updates even if you didn't make any new money from those users. You would be forced to change your business model to subscriptions. 2. If user has iPhone, iPad, apple watch and your app support all those platforms then probably this will be counted as 3 installs. 3. By default app store updates app automatically - if user has still some old iphone/ipad that uses from time to time this is getting even worse.
- dann0 3y ago
  No, reinstalls and updates don’t get counted. This is in the linked page: “each first annual install per year over a 1 million threshold”. This applies only to iOS Apps. iPad OS and Watch OS isn’t (yet) covered by this Core Technology Fee. I strongly suggest actually reading the linked page. Most of what you’re saying is clearly and obviously wrong, had you read the page.
  - pzo 3y ago
    "A first annual install may result from an app’s first-time install, a reinstall, or an update from any iOS app distribution option — including the App Store," [0] So update do counts it just in a year (12 months) install, reinstall and update is counted as one. But once user bought a paid app and installed it then next year if that user update app developer will have to pay for this update [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/ https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/
    - fendy3002 3y ago
      I saw some games already got late update for iOS and I'll expect it'll only getting worse
762236 3y ago
You don't get 1 million free installs if your app is an alternative app store. For the alternative app stores, they pay 0.50EUR for every first annual install.
- GlumWoodpecker 3y ago
  > iOS apps distributed from the App Store and/or an alternative app marketplace will pay €0.50 for each first annual install per year over a 1 million threshold.
  - 762236 3y ago
    That says 'from' the alternative app store. The alternative app store itself needs to be installed via Apple's app store, and the wording for that made it sound like you have to pay .50EUR for each first-annual install of it.
    - 762236 3y ago
      I am correct: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/01/29/two-additional-observations-regarding-apples-core-technology-fee https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/01/29/two-additional-...
SCdF 3y ago
If I make OpenFlappyBird, and it's my little personal project, and I distribute it on OpenMarketPlace *for free*, and it's a surprise massive runaway hit in the EU, with 10,000,000 people downloading it, I now owe Apple, after making zero money myself, ~$400k, *per month* (thanks pzo for the clarification). https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-in-the-eu/ https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-... Enter "No" to digital goods selling (you are making OpenFlappyBird as a personal project, and are not charging for it!) Enter 10,000,000 Annual installs. Check "New Capabilities and Terms" (you are putting it on OpenMarketPlace). ---- Where did I go wrong? This is a genuine question: I am not an iOS developer, maybe I am not applying this calculator correctly to my hypothetical?
- simondotau 3y ago
  > Where did I go wrong? When you compile OpenFlappyBird for iOS, your binary includes statically linked Apple intellectual property. Just as open source developers are entitled to use copyright law to enforce GPL rules[0], Apple is entitled to set license terms for use of this intellectual property. While many operating system developers have historically chosen to license this intellectual property at no cost, many others have not. And regardless, norms aren't laws. Apple isn't required to give away their stuff for free. [0] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#LinkingWithGPL https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#LinkingWithGPL
  - Doxin 3y ago
    They are however required by law to allow other app stores to function. This new licensing cost is a bald faced attempt to make other app stores nonviable. I'd be highly surprised if the EU is okay with that.
    - GlumWoodpecker 3y ago
      In my view, they are making alternative app stores way more attractive to FLOSS apps, because they will incur no fees from Apple, and the creators won't have to set up an NPO. Edit: Seems I misunderstood, I just re-read the relevant section: >iOS apps distributed from the App Store and/or an alternative app marketplace will pay €0.50 for each first annual install per year over a 1 million threshold. The fact that they are charging money for apps installed from non-App Store sources is ludicrous to me, if they aren't running the store, then they don't get to collect fees on it, imo.
Kwpolska 3y ago
> they reach 1 million installs, then they do have to pay €500k The first million is free. If they reach 1,000,001 installs, they owe Apple €0.50.

by dann0 3y ago

firejake308 3y ago

> If the app is free but offered by a commercial entity, they pay nothing in commission or payment fees (13% X $0 ) but they reach 1 million installs, then they do have to pay €500k. If the business has no revenue - that’s a weird business model. I think that "growth first, revenue later" is actually a fairly popular business model, and I can imagine a lot of my own app ideas reaching 1M downloads with <$500k revenue (in an ideal world, but still)

dann0 3y ago
Again, that’s a choice you’ve made. I’d argue that a number way less than 1 million installs would signify enough success to start charging for

pzo 3y ago

it seems reinstall and app updates also counts - it's not just 1 million new app install a year but probably also: 1. You made a one time paid app. If in the first year you got 2M installs and sold app for 5$ you are profitable, but next year if those users who already paid will make an app update then you will own ~$1M to apple for those app updates even if you didn't make any new money from those users. You would be forced to change your business model to subscriptions. 2. If user has iPhone, iPad, apple watch and your app support all those platforms then probably this will be counted as 3 installs. 3. By default app store updates app automatically - if user has still some old iphone/ipad that uses from time to time this is getting even worse.

dann0 3y ago
No, reinstalls and updates don’t get counted. This is in the linked page: “each first annual install per year over a 1 million threshold”. This applies only to iOS Apps. iPad OS and Watch OS isn’t (yet) covered by this Core Technology Fee. I strongly suggest actually reading the linked page. Most of what you’re saying is clearly and obviously wrong, had you read the page.
- pzo 3y ago
  "A first annual install may result from an app’s first-time install, a reinstall, or an update from any iOS app distribution option — including the App Store," [0] So update do counts it just in a year (12 months) install, reinstall and update is counted as one. But once user bought a paid app and installed it then next year if that user update app developer will have to pay for this update [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/ https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/
  - fendy3002 3y ago
    I saw some games already got late update for iOS and I'll expect it'll only getting worse

762236 3y ago

You don't get 1 million free installs if your app is an alternative app store. For the alternative app stores, they pay 0.50EUR for every first annual install.

GlumWoodpecker 3y ago
> iOS apps distributed from the App Store and/or an alternative app marketplace will pay €0.50 for each first annual install per year over a 1 million threshold.
- 762236 3y ago
  That says 'from' the alternative app store. The alternative app store itself needs to be installed via Apple's app store, and the wording for that made it sound like you have to pay .50EUR for each first-annual install of it.
  - 762236 3y ago
    I am correct: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/01/29/two-additional-observations-regarding-apples-core-technology-fee https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/01/29/two-additional-...

SCdF 3y ago

If I make OpenFlappyBird, and it's my little personal project, and I distribute it on OpenMarketPlace *for free*, and it's a surprise massive runaway hit in the EU, with 10,000,000 people downloading it, I now owe Apple, after making zero money myself, ~$400k, *per month* (thanks pzo for the clarification). https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-in-the-eu/ https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-... Enter "No" to digital goods selling (you are making OpenFlappyBird as a personal project, and are not charging for it!) Enter 10,000,000 Annual installs. Check "New Capabilities and Terms" (you are putting it on OpenMarketPlace). ---- Where did I go wrong? This is a genuine question: I am not an iOS developer, maybe I am not applying this calculator correctly to my hypothetical?

simondotau 3y ago
> Where did I go wrong? When you compile OpenFlappyBird for iOS, your binary includes statically linked Apple intellectual property. Just as open source developers are entitled to use copyright law to enforce GPL rules[0], Apple is entitled to set license terms for use of this intellectual property. While many operating system developers have historically chosen to license this intellectual property at no cost, many others have not. And regardless, norms aren't laws. Apple isn't required to give away their stuff for free. [0] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#LinkingWithGPL https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#LinkingWithGPL
- Doxin 3y ago
  They are however required by law to allow other app stores to function. This new licensing cost is a bald faced attempt to make other app stores nonviable. I'd be highly surprised if the EU is okay with that.
  - GlumWoodpecker 3y ago
    In my view, they are making alternative app stores way more attractive to FLOSS apps, because they will incur no fees from Apple, and the creators won't have to set up an NPO. Edit: Seems I misunderstood, I just re-read the relevant section: >iOS apps distributed from the App Store and/or an alternative app marketplace will pay €0.50 for each first annual install per year over a 1 million threshold. The fact that they are charging money for apps installed from non-App Store sources is ludicrous to me, if they aren't running the store, then they don't get to collect fees on it, imo.

Kwpolska 3y ago

> they reach 1 million installs, then they do have to pay €500k The first million is free. If they reach 1,000,001 installs, they owe Apple €0.50.