5 ms·

You sound like you have an axe to grind. Can you cite a past real-world example of what you’re saying?

Clubber 3y ago
Sure, the ATF allowed "pistol braces" over a decade then suddenly decided they were illegal. The ATF decided they would "reinterpret" very clear definition of what a machine gun was. A person has been put in prison for selling an uncut stencil of an automatic seer (basically a drawing on a metal credit card), which by definition isn't a machine-gun. https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/factoring-criteria-firearms-attached-stabilizing-braces https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/factoring-criteria... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTIDz8jflZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTIDz8jflZE https://thedailyrecord.com/2023/08/21/atf-gun-rights-advocates-battle-over-whether-forced-reset-triggers-are-illegal-machine-guns/ https://thedailyrecord.com/2023/08/21/atf-gun-rights-advocat... The EPA has greatly expanded the definition of wetlands. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/21-454_4g15.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/21-454_4g15.pdf And of course this example being discussed. There are probably many more we haven't heard about. You can agree or disagree with these policies, but they need to be voted on by congress. These agencies seem to be out of control and should be reigned in. Checks and balances are important.
- muaytimbo 3y ago
  The ATF examples are egregious, they issue letters of determination that pistol braces are permissible for a decade, then rescind and overnight make all buyers felons. But they are not the only agency that is evil, the CDC asserting the right over all housing in the US to prevent evictions was insane. The FDA not allowing terminal patients who have exhausted all other treatment options to try anything experimental. The list goes on.
- addicted 3y ago
  If the intent of Congress is clear Congress can simply pass a law to clarify that. Congress does exist. If an agency is acting against the will of Congress Congress can immediately stop it. You don’t need courts to come in and tell the agency what Congress means when Congress is right there and meets far more often than the courts and has a much quicker process than the courts, where decisions may go up the court chain all the way up to the supreme court.
  - Clubber 3y ago
    >If the intent of Congress is clear Congress can simply pass a law to clarify that. Congress does exist. If an agency is acting against the will of Congress Congress can immediately stop it. Congress is different every year. The totality of congress members that negotiated and passed the law is likely no longer seated. Also this suggestion completely circumvents presidential veto power. It's also highly prone to abuse. >You don’t need courts to come in and tell the agency what Congress means when Congress is right there and meets far more often than the courts and has a much quicker process than the courts, where decisions may go up the court chain all the way up to the supreme court. That's literally what the SCOTUS is for, to interpret laws. https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-government/the-judicial-branch/#:~:text=Although%20the%20Supreme%20Court%20may,a%20law%20should%20be%20applied https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-governm.... https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/flash-cards/M-638_red.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/flash-car...
creer 3y ago
See recent agency internal rules that their scientists had to get reports and papers approved by their political administration before publication.
lurking15 3y ago
You sound like you have an axe to grind by invoking that accusation against someone else over a common sense statement.
elcritch 3y ago
Other commenters posted good responses IMHO. My statement wasn’t due to any particular incident or axe to grind. It’s my observation of groupthink among experts in both sciences and public policy. Specifically recently I was affected by shortages of stimulant medications for treatment of ADHD. These shortages appeared to be due to secret DEA limits. Generally Americans getting these medications are treated like suspects first and foremost, in part due to the DEAs pressure on pharmacies. Here’s one of the experts describing it: > The exact limit for each > pharmacy is kept secret in > order to prevent pharmacists > from gaming the system, > according to Krista Tongring, > leader of the DEA compliance > practice at Guidepost > Solutions and a former agency > attorney. Note the original problem to be solved was opioid overprescribing. Instead of solving that issue directly the DEA experts decided to restrict all controlled substances with murky limits for unclear reasons. Certainly not to help Americans with ADHD, narcolepsy, anxiety, or a host of other genuine and often debilitating conditions. The DEA’s only concern is “suspicious orders” and limiting the drugs. Hence a case of one set of experts being myopic in the face of the broader health care system in the US. https://fortune.com/2023/04/03/xanax-adderall-rules-patients-opiods-pain-medication/amp/ https://fortune.com/2023/04/03/xanax-adderall-rules-patients...

Sure, the ATF allowed "pistol braces" over a decade then suddenly decided they were illegal. The ATF decided they would "reinterpret" very clear definition of what a machine gun was. A person has been put in prison for selling an uncut stencil of an automatic seer (basically a drawing on a metal credit card), which by definition isn't a machine-gun. https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/factoring-criteria-firearms-attached-stabilizing-braces https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/factoring-criteria... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTIDz8jflZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTIDz8jflZE https://thedailyrecord.com/2023/08/21/atf-gun-rights-advocates-battle-over-whether-forced-reset-triggers-are-illegal-machine-guns/ https://thedailyrecord.com/2023/08/21/atf-gun-rights-advocat... The EPA has greatly expanded the definition of wetlands. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/21-454_4g15.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/21-454_4g15.pdf And of course this example being discussed. There are probably many more we haven't heard about. You can agree or disagree with these policies, but they need to be voted on by congress. These agencies seem to be out of control and should be reigned in. Checks and balances are important.

muaytimbo 3y ago
The ATF examples are egregious, they issue letters of determination that pistol braces are permissible for a decade, then rescind and overnight make all buyers felons. But they are not the only agency that is evil, the CDC asserting the right over all housing in the US to prevent evictions was insane. The FDA not allowing terminal patients who have exhausted all other treatment options to try anything experimental. The list goes on.
addicted 3y ago
If the intent of Congress is clear Congress can simply pass a law to clarify that. Congress does exist. If an agency is acting against the will of Congress Congress can immediately stop it. You don’t need courts to come in and tell the agency what Congress means when Congress is right there and meets far more often than the courts and has a much quicker process than the courts, where decisions may go up the court chain all the way up to the supreme court.
- Clubber 3y ago
  >If the intent of Congress is clear Congress can simply pass a law to clarify that. Congress does exist. If an agency is acting against the will of Congress Congress can immediately stop it. Congress is different every year. The totality of congress members that negotiated and passed the law is likely no longer seated. Also this suggestion completely circumvents presidential veto power. It's also highly prone to abuse. >You don’t need courts to come in and tell the agency what Congress means when Congress is right there and meets far more often than the courts and has a much quicker process than the courts, where decisions may go up the court chain all the way up to the supreme court. That's literally what the SCOTUS is for, to interpret laws. https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-government/the-judicial-branch/#:~:text=Although%20the%20Supreme%20Court%20may,a%20law%20should%20be%20applied https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-governm.... https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/flash-cards/M-638_red.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/flash-car...

creer 3y ago

See recent agency internal rules that their scientists had to get reports and papers approved by their political administration before publication.

lurking15 3y ago

You sound like you have an axe to grind by invoking that accusation against someone else over a common sense statement.

elcritch 3y ago

Other commenters posted good responses IMHO. My statement wasn’t due to any particular incident or axe to grind. It’s my observation of groupthink among experts in both sciences and public policy. Specifically recently I was affected by shortages of stimulant medications for treatment of ADHD. These shortages appeared to be due to secret DEA limits. Generally Americans getting these medications are treated like suspects first and foremost, in part due to the DEAs pressure on pharmacies. Here’s one of the experts describing it: > The exact limit for each > pharmacy is kept secret in > order to prevent pharmacists > from gaming the system, > according to Krista Tongring, > leader of the DEA compliance > practice at Guidepost > Solutions and a former agency > attorney. Note the original problem to be solved was opioid overprescribing. Instead of solving that issue directly the DEA experts decided to restrict all controlled substances with murky limits for unclear reasons. Certainly not to help Americans with ADHD, narcolepsy, anxiety, or a host of other genuine and often debilitating conditions. The DEA’s only concern is “suspicious orders” and limiting the drugs. Hence a case of one set of experts being myopic in the face of the broader health care system in the US. https://fortune.com/2023/04/03/xanax-adderall-rules-patients-opiods-pain-medication/amp/ https://fortune.com/2023/04/03/xanax-adderall-rules-patients...