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Would the abstract "one" you're thinking of happen to be a middle class college educated American who has never been on the receiving end of American benevolenc

by racketcon2089 3y ago

Would the abstract "one" you're thinking of happen to be a middle class college educated American who has never been on the receiving end of American benevolence in the form of saturated bombing of civilian areas, nor been at risk of being drafted to fight overseas? Is your point that those people's lives are somehow inherently less valuable or is your point that you're willing to sacrifice as many of them as it takes to get a good outcome for you?

sebzim4500 3y ago
>nor been at risk of being drafted to fight overseas? I doubt there will ever be another draft in the US. As technology becomes more important the priority will be keeping the industrial base running for military R&D and weapon manufacturing, not on having millions of barely trained kids most of which you can't properly equip.
- racketcon2089 3y ago
  I can tell you're not in Ukraine or Israel right now. Would you like to know how?
  - Aeolun 3y ago
    He’s talking about the US military. Why would they be in Ukraine or Israel?
    - racketcon2089 3y ago
      Neither Ukraine nor Israel have reached this hypothetical technological era in which a draft is not required, and those facts are inescapable to any American in those countries observing it. One reason the US military doesn't need a draft is because its proxy forces which are supplied by US equipment do have a military draft. This is not a complex argument nor are there any facts which are not mutually agreed upon by all parties here. I'm not able to follow the ideological contortions that would be required to not understand something as simple as: "The US supplies the equipment, and the local US-backed government uses a draft to supply its army with the number of soldiers it needs to use the equipment."
      - Aeolun 3y ago
        Well, there is the thing where the US has a massive army even without a draft. They’d need to fight some near equal opponent to ever get to the point where their professional army needs to be supplemented. Though I don’t disagree with the premise that we’re still far away from purely AI warfare.
      - sebzim4500 3y ago
        >Neither Ukraine nor Israel have reached this hypothetical technological era in which a draft is not required, They have worse equipment and a much smaller professional army.
AYBABTME 3y ago
I'm going to ignore your attempt at ad-hominem because you're far off mark. Anyways: (1) there will be violence and people will suffer from someone else's power (2) you're better off wishing for that power to be as nice as it can be (3) the US has been about as nice as one could wish for, based on historical precedent and what contenders are demonstrating they would do. Of course the US has done plenty of bad stuff to plenty of people. But you're delusional if you think some alternative power would have been gentler. I too wish for a world power that never resolves to violence and never does any mistake. I too think that life is valuable everywhere, and that none should be sacrificed. But the real world doesn't yet offer us these circumstances.
- racketcon2089 3y ago
  >But you're delusional if you think some alternative power would have been gentler. You're saying that people who don't agree with a non-falsifiable claim about hypothetical alternatives are delusional. That suggests a closed system of thought which has left behind empiricism and must now be considered metaphysical. I'm a plain materialist so I can't go any further with any statements that assert definite knowledge of things outside of material reality. >I too wish for a world power that never resolves to violence and never does any mistake This has nothing to do with what I said and is not an opinion I hold so you must've meant to respond to someone else, I definitely wouldn't want to say that you're irrational, overly emotional, and have become accustomed to arguing by intentionally mischaracterizing what other people say to preserve your existing psychological commitments in a fundamentally juvenile and dishonest way.
  - Aeolun 3y ago
    It feels like you understand where he was going with his comment and are deliberately misconstruing it to have something to reply to? As much as I do not enjoy the US doing all these things, I think it’s fair to say that they’re maybe the most benevolent? I don’t think China historically has a great track record when it comes to military intervention, but they also mostly leave people alone. The US seems to always go in with the best of intentions only to royally fuck it up.

sebzim4500 3y ago

>nor been at risk of being drafted to fight overseas? I doubt there will ever be another draft in the US. As technology becomes more important the priority will be keeping the industrial base running for military R&D and weapon manufacturing, not on having millions of barely trained kids most of which you can't properly equip.

racketcon2089 3y ago
I can tell you're not in Ukraine or Israel right now. Would you like to know how?
- Aeolun 3y ago
  He’s talking about the US military. Why would they be in Ukraine or Israel?
  - racketcon2089 3y ago
    Neither Ukraine nor Israel have reached this hypothetical technological era in which a draft is not required, and those facts are inescapable to any American in those countries observing it. One reason the US military doesn't need a draft is because its proxy forces which are supplied by US equipment do have a military draft. This is not a complex argument nor are there any facts which are not mutually agreed upon by all parties here. I'm not able to follow the ideological contortions that would be required to not understand something as simple as: "The US supplies the equipment, and the local US-backed government uses a draft to supply its army with the number of soldiers it needs to use the equipment."
    - Aeolun 3y ago
      Well, there is the thing where the US has a massive army even without a draft. They’d need to fight some near equal opponent to ever get to the point where their professional army needs to be supplemented. Though I don’t disagree with the premise that we’re still far away from purely AI warfare.
    - sebzim4500 3y ago
      >Neither Ukraine nor Israel have reached this hypothetical technological era in which a draft is not required, They have worse equipment and a much smaller professional army.

AYBABTME 3y ago

I'm going to ignore your attempt at ad-hominem because you're far off mark. Anyways: (1) there will be violence and people will suffer from someone else's power (2) you're better off wishing for that power to be as nice as it can be (3) the US has been about as nice as one could wish for, based on historical precedent and what contenders are demonstrating they would do. Of course the US has done plenty of bad stuff to plenty of people. But you're delusional if you think some alternative power would have been gentler. I too wish for a world power that never resolves to violence and never does any mistake. I too think that life is valuable everywhere, and that none should be sacrificed. But the real world doesn't yet offer us these circumstances.

racketcon2089 3y ago
>But you're delusional if you think some alternative power would have been gentler. You're saying that people who don't agree with a non-falsifiable claim about hypothetical alternatives are delusional. That suggests a closed system of thought which has left behind empiricism and must now be considered metaphysical. I'm a plain materialist so I can't go any further with any statements that assert definite knowledge of things outside of material reality. >I too wish for a world power that never resolves to violence and never does any mistake This has nothing to do with what I said and is not an opinion I hold so you must've meant to respond to someone else, I definitely wouldn't want to say that you're irrational, overly emotional, and have become accustomed to arguing by intentionally mischaracterizing what other people say to preserve your existing psychological commitments in a fundamentally juvenile and dishonest way.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  It feels like you understand where he was going with his comment and are deliberately misconstruing it to have something to reply to? As much as I do not enjoy the US doing all these things, I think it’s fair to say that they’re maybe the most benevolent? I don’t think China historically has a great track record when it comes to military intervention, but they also mostly leave people alone. The US seems to always go in with the best of intentions only to royally fuck it up.