10 ms·

It's insane to me that most of the heat is being directed at Fujitsu. Sure, there's definitely some culpability there, but the Post Office (especially their leg

by Tyrek 3y ago

It's insane to me that most of the heat is being directed at Fujitsu. Sure, there's definitely some culpability there, but the Post Office (especially their legal team) holds the vast majority of the responsibility. There's a lot weighing in on the multi-year investigation that (has been) ongoing, but I can't help but feel like they're waiting for the public furor to cool down before releasing anything.

toyg 3y ago
> the Post Office (especially their legal team) holds the vast majority of the responsibility. It really depends on what Fujitsu told which PO manager.
- tialaramex 3y ago
  The Post Office also paid independent people to figure out where the problem is, and the answer was "Horizon is garbage, you can't rely on it". So, they fired those people. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-67921974 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-67921974 This a pattern we've seen before 1. "We aren't wrong, you are too involved to make an impartial decision. We need somebody independent to investigate" 2. "The independent investigation has finished, but we need to properly digest their report, so we can't tell you what they said yet" 3. "We've now realised the independent investigation was inadequate, everybody who worked on it was incompetent and its findings are useless so we've destroyed the report. We declare ourselves exonerated, we were right all along". People tend to have this mistaken understanding of morality which assumes they're a good person and so therefore obviously what they did must be good (since they're a good person) and so they might need to uh, fix differences between the world as they've imagined it and the slightly less rosy reality. For example sure, you know that stabbing Sarah in the throat resulted in Sarah becoming dead, but you had to do that, because you're a good person and Sarah was going to tell the Police that you'd stolen $18.5M from the business. You didn't steal that money! Sure, yes, you took the money and maybe you technically shouldn't have done that, but you had a 100% sure strategy for playing Blackjack and recovering the $800 000 you lost last month, except that you got a bit confused and lost all of the $18.5M, but that's not theft, that's just a minor mistake you will be able to soon fix, if only Sarah doesn't tell these lies about stealing and get you arrested. So you had to, it wasn't murder, it was really self defence. You're a Good Person!
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    > The Post Office also paid independent people to figure out where the problem is, and the answer was "Horizon is garbage, you can't rely on it". So, they fired those people. A UK tradition! > In 2009, the government came under fire when ACMD [Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs] chair David Nutt of Imperial College London was sacked for questioning government drug policy in public https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/little-has-changed-in-uk-drug-policy-a-decade-on-from-sacking-of-david-nutt/4010605.article https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/little-has-changed-in-uk...
    - mcguire 3y ago
      As I understand it, there's an ongoing PPE thing as well.
      - Scoundreller 3y ago
        Let me guess, they (also) only sacked people that went in one direction with respect to gov policy and not the other direction?
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  That implies that the Post Office didn't know about the true situation, but they most definitely did know about the issues, but continued to lie and fraudulently collect money from the sub postmasters affected whilst collecting bonuses for each successful prosecution.

by Tyrek 3y ago

toyg 3y ago

> the Post Office (especially their legal team) holds the vast majority of the responsibility. It really depends on what Fujitsu told which PO manager.

tialaramex 3y ago
The Post Office also paid independent people to figure out where the problem is, and the answer was "Horizon is garbage, you can't rely on it". So, they fired those people. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-67921974 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-67921974 This a pattern we've seen before 1. "We aren't wrong, you are too involved to make an impartial decision. We need somebody independent to investigate" 2. "The independent investigation has finished, but we need to properly digest their report, so we can't tell you what they said yet" 3. "We've now realised the independent investigation was inadequate, everybody who worked on it was incompetent and its findings are useless so we've destroyed the report. We declare ourselves exonerated, we were right all along". People tend to have this mistaken understanding of morality which assumes they're a good person and so therefore obviously what they did must be good (since they're a good person) and so they might need to uh, fix differences between the world as they've imagined it and the slightly less rosy reality. For example sure, you know that stabbing Sarah in the throat resulted in Sarah becoming dead, but you had to do that, because you're a good person and Sarah was going to tell the Police that you'd stolen $18.5M from the business. You didn't steal that money! Sure, yes, you took the money and maybe you technically shouldn't have done that, but you had a 100% sure strategy for playing Blackjack and recovering the $800 000 you lost last month, except that you got a bit confused and lost all of the $18.5M, but that's not theft, that's just a minor mistake you will be able to soon fix, if only Sarah doesn't tell these lies about stealing and get you arrested. So you had to, it wasn't murder, it was really self defence. You're a Good Person!
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  > The Post Office also paid independent people to figure out where the problem is, and the answer was "Horizon is garbage, you can't rely on it". So, they fired those people. A UK tradition! > In 2009, the government came under fire when ACMD [Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs] chair David Nutt of Imperial College London was sacked for questioning government drug policy in public https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/little-has-changed-in-uk-drug-policy-a-decade-on-from-sacking-of-david-nutt/4010605.article https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/little-has-changed-in-uk...
  - mcguire 3y ago
    As I understand it, there's an ongoing PPE thing as well.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      Let me guess, they (also) only sacked people that went in one direction with respect to gov policy and not the other direction?
ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
That implies that the Post Office didn't know about the true situation, but they most definitely did know about the issues, but continued to lie and fraudulently collect money from the sub postmasters affected whilst collecting bonuses for each successful prosecution.