7 ms·

We didn't let them go, they were taken from us by force

by oez 3y ago

grishka 3y ago
Same for sanely-sized screens. It really sucks for someone who doesn't watch any videos on their phone and still treats it mostly as a limited communication device rather than their primary gateway to the internet. The fact that I'm a relatively compact person doesn't help either.
- microtonal 3y ago
  The iPhone 12/13 Mini was substantially smaller, but few people bought it, so they cancelled it. The vast majority seem to want large screens. Currently the only compromise are flip phones. I considered buying the Z Flip 5, but the screen protector needs to be replaced by Samsung to maintain warranty and there is no Samsung Store nearby. I asked and Samsung said I'd have to send it to them, losing my phone for a couple of days. No thanks.
  - grishka 3y ago
    iPhones run iOS and, honestly, I can't stand it for a variety of reasons regardless of how nice the hardware is. Main one being that apps can only be installed from the app store. I can see myself using a jailbroken iPhone, but jailbreaks are hard to come by these days. Vast majority doesn't know what they want. They would convince themselves that whatever is currently sold must be good. But then I know at least 10 people who truly want a small phone. I'm not the only one. There's clearly a demand for phones for people for whom their computer is still their primary device. The world would've been a better place if every single phone manufacturer didn't copy the others. It's a vicious circle.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Yeah same here, having Tim Cook decide what I'm allowed to use my phone for is not my piece of cake. Also I just love some features of the Android ecosystem like the desktop mode (Samsung DeX and alternatives)
    - alpaca128 3y ago
      Unfortunately bigger phone means more space for the battery and rest of the hardware, so companies will keep making their Pro Ultra models larger and so of course the larger ones are more of a status symbol.
      - grishka 3y ago
        But the screen consumes most of the charge in a modern phone anyway. The smaller the screen, the less battery capacity you need to get a sensible battery life. The CPU also matters, of course — that's one thing I like about my Pixel 4a, it lasts long even after 3 years because it uses a weak-ass SoC that nonetheless is perfectly capable for messaging and web browsing.
        alpaca128 3y ago
        The screen is off most of the time. The iPhone 13 Mini has the same CPU as the larger models and there is a significant difference in battery life, you likely won't find a review for this device which doesn't mention how fast the battery drains.
        grishka 3y ago
        From my own experience, iPhones are really bad with idle battery life. The iPhone 11 Pro I have for occasionally testing iOS apps would drain the battery in ~3 days just laying on my desk doing nothing. Android phones, on the other hand, last more than a week when not used thanks to "doze mode" and other optimizations in recent versions. But I suppose that difference isn't as noticeable when you actually use an iPhone as your real phone and charge it daily at night.
  - guappa 3y ago
    > The iPhone 12/13 Mini was substantially smaller, but few people bought it I knew before scrolling down that such a comment would be there. an iphone costs easily 5x-7x more than an android phone. Most people just want a phone that can do messages, calls, and has a gps. There haven't been any non-overpriced smaller smartphones lately.
    - hellotomyrars 3y ago
      As someone who uses an iPhone SE, I have to disagree. I have a small phone with incredible internals at a price that can’t be be beat. You can go cheap as you want to on android for sure but you’re going to pay the price one way or the other. Having helped support people works budget android phones, it’s painful. I don’t use my phone like most people, I would never watch a video on my phone or use it extensively for general purpose computing by choice, but those budget android phones are disgustingly slow and stuffed to the gills with bloat. The only pain point with my current phone is the camera is still effectively 10 year old hardware. I would like a nicer camera and I could probably find that on a similarly priced and sized android phone if I really wanted to I’ll admit. That said, I’m worried what the next generation of SE will end up being. I’m going to guess it’ll be physically bigger and I’ll have to say goodbye to TouchID (which I vastly prefer to FaceID). I love this phone otherwise and am in no hurry to replace it. Outside of the camera, the parts of its design that are stuck in the past are the things I love about it. Flagship android phones from every major vendor are priced to compete with iPhones though and let’s not pretend otherwise. You can spend more on an android phone now than an iPhone if you’re so inclined.
    - grishka 3y ago
      For me personally, the cost isn't a factor. I'd gladly buy a small Android phone for up to $2000 if it would satisfy all my needs. Yes, I'm this desperate. And by the way, high-quality Android phones cost comparable to iPhones. Keep in mind that Apple is simply not interested in the budget segment.
      - vladxyz 3y ago
        Take a look at the current gen flippy phones (Galaxy Flip 5, Moto Razr+). I've had the latter for a few months, purchased basically because the outer screen is actually usable. With the phone folded shut, it's pretty much a small phone. I can easily reach every corner of that outer screen with my thumb.
- alpaca128 3y ago
  I have quite large hands and the iPhone 13 Mini is kind of the upper limit of what I call comfortable to use with one hand. The perfect phone for me is roughly the size of the iPhone 4, or like the BB Passport where the designers fully committed to the two-handed use case and made that work well. With Apple's Vision Pro and its controls based on eye movement and finger gestures in mind I think this might become a thing on larger sized phones as well. For example a dedicated button at the bottom of the screen that will just click wherever I look. At least I'd prefer that over having to do finger gymnastics on a 6 inch screen.
konschubert 3y ago
Revealed preferences.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- MereInterest 3y ago
  Revealed preferences assumes that there are no confounding factors, no tyranny of small decisions, no information asymmetry and an unlimited selection of products that vary along every combination of features. It’s economic drivel, and serves only to dismiss opinions out of hand.
  - konschubert 3y ago
    My point is that small phones don’t sell well.
    - MereInterest 3y ago
      Then that's an entirely different point. There are many reasons why small phones don't sell well. There's the changing market in which a phone is the primary computer for many people. There's incomplete information, as the tethers in a showroom prevent you from holding a phone one-handed, or noticing that it is too big to fit in your pocket. There's a potential for decreased design costs, as a larger space provides more options for how the phone's internals can be arranged. But calling those "revealed preferences" is a sleight-of-hand. It takes all those external factors and treats them as something intrinsic about the buyer, to be "revealed" by the market. The term itself is a lie.
tsbinz 3y ago
That is a questionable statement, as there were phones with removable batteries and phones without them on the market for quite some time and the phones with removable batteries were simply not successful enough.
- guappa 3y ago
  If they were identical in all aspects, including cost, your comment might make sense. I suspect there was more than one variable involved and so the entire idea that there is any correlation is flawed.

We didn't let them go, they were taken from us by force

by oez 3y ago

We didn't let them go, they were taken from us by force

Same for sanely-sized screens. It really sucks for someone who doesn't watch any videos on their phone and still treats it mostly as a limited communication device rather than their primary gateway to the internet. The fact that I'm a relatively compact person doesn't help either.

microtonal 3y ago
The iPhone 12/13 Mini was substantially smaller, but few people bought it, so they cancelled it. The vast majority seem to want large screens. Currently the only compromise are flip phones. I considered buying the Z Flip 5, but the screen protector needs to be replaced by Samsung to maintain warranty and there is no Samsung Store nearby. I asked and Samsung said I'd have to send it to them, losing my phone for a couple of days. No thanks.
- grishka 3y ago
  iPhones run iOS and, honestly, I can't stand it for a variety of reasons regardless of how nice the hardware is. Main one being that apps can only be installed from the app store. I can see myself using a jailbroken iPhone, but jailbreaks are hard to come by these days. Vast majority doesn't know what they want. They would convince themselves that whatever is currently sold must be good. But then I know at least 10 people who truly want a small phone. I'm not the only one. There's clearly a demand for phones for people for whom their computer is still their primary device. The world would've been a better place if every single phone manufacturer didn't copy the others. It's a vicious circle.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Yeah same here, having Tim Cook decide what I'm allowed to use my phone for is not my piece of cake. Also I just love some features of the Android ecosystem like the desktop mode (Samsung DeX and alternatives)
  - alpaca128 3y ago
    Unfortunately bigger phone means more space for the battery and rest of the hardware, so companies will keep making their Pro Ultra models larger and so of course the larger ones are more of a status symbol.
    - grishka 3y ago
      But the screen consumes most of the charge in a modern phone anyway. The smaller the screen, the less battery capacity you need to get a sensible battery life. The CPU also matters, of course — that's one thing I like about my Pixel 4a, it lasts long even after 3 years because it uses a weak-ass SoC that nonetheless is perfectly capable for messaging and web browsing.
      - alpaca128 3y ago
        The screen is off most of the time. The iPhone 13 Mini has the same CPU as the larger models and there is a significant difference in battery life, you likely won't find a review for this device which doesn't mention how fast the battery drains.
        grishka 3y ago
        From my own experience, iPhones are really bad with idle battery life. The iPhone 11 Pro I have for occasionally testing iOS apps would drain the battery in ~3 days just laying on my desk doing nothing. Android phones, on the other hand, last more than a week when not used thanks to "doze mode" and other optimizations in recent versions. But I suppose that difference isn't as noticeable when you actually use an iPhone as your real phone and charge it daily at night.
- guappa 3y ago
  > The iPhone 12/13 Mini was substantially smaller, but few people bought it I knew before scrolling down that such a comment would be there. an iphone costs easily 5x-7x more than an android phone. Most people just want a phone that can do messages, calls, and has a gps. There haven't been any non-overpriced smaller smartphones lately.
  - hellotomyrars 3y ago
    As someone who uses an iPhone SE, I have to disagree. I have a small phone with incredible internals at a price that can’t be be beat. You can go cheap as you want to on android for sure but you’re going to pay the price one way or the other. Having helped support people works budget android phones, it’s painful. I don’t use my phone like most people, I would never watch a video on my phone or use it extensively for general purpose computing by choice, but those budget android phones are disgustingly slow and stuffed to the gills with bloat. The only pain point with my current phone is the camera is still effectively 10 year old hardware. I would like a nicer camera and I could probably find that on a similarly priced and sized android phone if I really wanted to I’ll admit. That said, I’m worried what the next generation of SE will end up being. I’m going to guess it’ll be physically bigger and I’ll have to say goodbye to TouchID (which I vastly prefer to FaceID). I love this phone otherwise and am in no hurry to replace it. Outside of the camera, the parts of its design that are stuck in the past are the things I love about it. Flagship android phones from every major vendor are priced to compete with iPhones though and let’s not pretend otherwise. You can spend more on an android phone now than an iPhone if you’re so inclined.
  - grishka 3y ago
    For me personally, the cost isn't a factor. I'd gladly buy a small Android phone for up to $2000 if it would satisfy all my needs. Yes, I'm this desperate. And by the way, high-quality Android phones cost comparable to iPhones. Keep in mind that Apple is simply not interested in the budget segment.
    - vladxyz 3y ago
      Take a look at the current gen flippy phones (Galaxy Flip 5, Moto Razr+). I've had the latter for a few months, purchased basically because the outer screen is actually usable. With the phone folded shut, it's pretty much a small phone. I can easily reach every corner of that outer screen with my thumb.
alpaca128 3y ago
I have quite large hands and the iPhone 13 Mini is kind of the upper limit of what I call comfortable to use with one hand. The perfect phone for me is roughly the size of the iPhone 4, or like the BB Passport where the designers fully committed to the two-handed use case and made that work well. With Apple's Vision Pro and its controls based on eye movement and finger gestures in mind I think this might become a thing on larger sized phones as well. For example a dedicated button at the bottom of the screen that will just click wherever I look. At least I'd prefer that over having to do finger gymnastics on a 6 inch screen.

konschubert 3y ago

Revealed preferences.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
MereInterest 3y ago
Revealed preferences assumes that there are no confounding factors, no tyranny of small decisions, no information asymmetry and an unlimited selection of products that vary along every combination of features. It’s economic drivel, and serves only to dismiss opinions out of hand.
- konschubert 3y ago
  My point is that small phones don’t sell well.
  - MereInterest 3y ago
    Then that's an entirely different point. There are many reasons why small phones don't sell well. There's the changing market in which a phone is the primary computer for many people. There's incomplete information, as the tethers in a showroom prevent you from holding a phone one-handed, or noticing that it is too big to fit in your pocket. There's a potential for decreased design costs, as a larger space provides more options for how the phone's internals can be arranged. But calling those "revealed preferences" is a sleight-of-hand. It takes all those external factors and treats them as something intrinsic about the buyer, to be "revealed" by the market. The term itself is a lie.

tsbinz 3y ago

That is a questionable statement, as there were phones with removable batteries and phones without them on the market for quite some time and the phones with removable batteries were simply not successful enough.

guappa 3y ago
If they were identical in all aspects, including cost, your comment might make sense. I suspect there was more than one variable involved and so the entire idea that there is any correlation is flawed.