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What do you think is running on your favorite game consoles (that aren't Xbox)? I'll give you a hint, it isn't Linux. Nintendo is using a custom OS but with a

What do you think is running on your favorite game consoles (that aren't Xbox)? I'll give you a hint, it isn't Linux. Nintendo is using a custom OS but with a huge chunk of user space borrowed from FreeBSD. Sony on the other hand just went and forked FreeBSD outright. You might also want to look into what OS are being used for server environments. A lot more BSD there than you might have initially guessed.

xxs 3y ago
> your favorite game consoles unless it's a steamDeck, ofc. No love for consoles, though.
- dylukes 3y ago
  If I'm in the mood for being a little glib... where do you think that Linux distribution that SteamOS is based on got its user-space (or more seriously, its drivers?) Also: the SteamDeck is by any reasonable standard a console. It just happens to run a windowed environment out of the box. Don't be that guy. If you want to pump Valve, focus instead on their contributions to the Wine project.
  - xxs 3y ago
    No idea why the personal involvement with valve pumping has come from. Atari "VCS All-In Bundle" is debian based, too. They are not playstation popular, of course. Like mentioned "no love for consoles", dont own one, not interested, either.
  - rascul 3y ago
    > where do you think that Linux distribution that SteamOS is based on got its user-space (or more seriously, its drivers?) Are you saying that Arch gets its userspace and drivers from FreeBSD?
    - seanw444 3y ago
      I guess there is some BSD software that is common in Linux, like OpenSSH tools and dhcpcd. But that's not unique to Arch.
pjmlp 3y ago
And thanks to the BSD license, the project is getting zero back from Sony, while those Playstation profits get a big higher thanks to less R&D costs spent on OS code. Same applies to clang/LLVM port to the Playstation, regarding everything that would expose console implementation details without an NDA.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  It is probably for another product but there is at least one Sony email address, and a number email addresses from different corporate entities, on the FreeBSD contributors list. All 3 majors BSD OSes also list donators (can be financially or hardware). So saying corps that use BSD code never give anything back because of license is not true. And an awful lot don't do any more or even hide their use of gpl licensed code anyway.
  - nine_k 3y ago
    When, say, IBM contributed a lot of stuff into the Linux kernel in early 2000s, that stuff became immediately available to anyone. Whatever cool stuff Nintendo or Sony may introduce in their versions of BSD kernels, we don't even know, let alone seeing them contribute it back. GPL works similarly to a patent pool: every participant sees that openly contributing to the pool is more profitable than being a renegade, as long as everyone else plays by the rules, too. MIT/BSD, while as open as possible, can easily promote a trade-secret type of environment, where any enhancements are never heard of, except under an NDA, and perish if their creators go under or lose interest.
miki123211 3y ago
> but with a huge chunk of user space borrowed from FreeBSD Any sources on this, and on what parts were borrowed specifically? I was under the impression that Nintendo did away with most of the Unix layers we know and love and went all-in on custom code and APIs, is that not the case?
- monocasa 3y ago
  The network stack is taken from BSD, but then again so was the network stack on Windows 2000/XP.

xxs 3y ago

> your favorite game consoles unless it's a steamDeck, ofc. No love for consoles, though.

dylukes 3y ago
If I'm in the mood for being a little glib... where do you think that Linux distribution that SteamOS is based on got its user-space (or more seriously, its drivers?) Also: the SteamDeck is by any reasonable standard a console. It just happens to run a windowed environment out of the box. Don't be that guy. If you want to pump Valve, focus instead on their contributions to the Wine project.
- xxs 3y ago
  No idea why the personal involvement with valve pumping has come from. Atari "VCS All-In Bundle" is debian based, too. They are not playstation popular, of course. Like mentioned "no love for consoles", dont own one, not interested, either.
- rascul 3y ago
  > where do you think that Linux distribution that SteamOS is based on got its user-space (or more seriously, its drivers?) Are you saying that Arch gets its userspace and drivers from FreeBSD?
  - seanw444 3y ago
    I guess there is some BSD software that is common in Linux, like OpenSSH tools and dhcpcd. But that's not unique to Arch.

pjmlp 3y ago

And thanks to the BSD license, the project is getting zero back from Sony, while those Playstation profits get a big higher thanks to less R&D costs spent on OS code. Same applies to clang/LLVM port to the Playstation, regarding everything that would expose console implementation details without an NDA.

prmoustache 3y ago
It is probably for another product but there is at least one Sony email address, and a number email addresses from different corporate entities, on the FreeBSD contributors list. All 3 majors BSD OSes also list donators (can be financially or hardware). So saying corps that use BSD code never give anything back because of license is not true. And an awful lot don't do any more or even hide their use of gpl licensed code anyway.
- nine_k 3y ago
  When, say, IBM contributed a lot of stuff into the Linux kernel in early 2000s, that stuff became immediately available to anyone. Whatever cool stuff Nintendo or Sony may introduce in their versions of BSD kernels, we don't even know, let alone seeing them contribute it back. GPL works similarly to a patent pool: every participant sees that openly contributing to the pool is more profitable than being a renegade, as long as everyone else plays by the rules, too. MIT/BSD, while as open as possible, can easily promote a trade-secret type of environment, where any enhancements are never heard of, except under an NDA, and perish if their creators go under or lose interest.

miki123211 3y ago

> but with a huge chunk of user space borrowed from FreeBSD Any sources on this, and on what parts were borrowed specifically? I was under the impression that Nintendo did away with most of the Unix layers we know and love and went all-in on custom code and APIs, is that not the case?

monocasa 3y ago
The network stack is taken from BSD, but then again so was the network stack on Windows 2000/XP.