7 ms·

I feel the same way and after speaking with many EV people i've realised the main benefit is how cheap they are to run. This comes down to the increase in effic

by pentae 3y ago

I feel the same way and after speaking with many EV people i've realised the main benefit is how cheap they are to run. This comes down to the increase in efficiency compared to an ICE - ~80% of the battery energy finds its way to the wheels on EV's, vs ~30% on an ICE. If you live somewhere where electric costs are very low then a 0 to full charge your EV costs about $10. (Someone please correct me if i'm off on this one) Depending on your mileage, by saving $3k-$4k a year on gas theres certainly a case to be made for an EV being a more sensible financial decision in the long term especially given government tax incentives One of the biggest reason for the massive disparity in efficiency on EV's is due to regenerative braking (16-25%). So what's interesting is when you compare an EV to a Hybrid ICE vehicle then the efficiency disparity becomes a lot less and you still have the benefit of being able to take long trips and not needing a home charger. Anyone thats driven a Hybrid Toyota will tell you that fuel consumption is dramatically less, in my real world scenarios I use about 2.5x less gas in something like a Toyota Corolla Cross compared to my not overly thirsty ICE BMW. Another benefit to Hybrids is they only require a ~1kWh battery instead of needing a huge 60-70kWh battery like an EV. So you could create 60 or 70 hybrid vehicles for the same amount of lithium mining as one EV. One has to wonder why the governments aren't just pushing everyone into Hybrids instead of EV's? If a young person was asking me to recommend a car and they didn't have a home charger I wouldn't hesitate to recommend something like a new Toyota HEV / Honda e:hev - they are basically an EV with an on-board Atkinson engine as a powerplant.

danans 3y ago
> If you live somewhere where electric costs are very low then a 0 to full charge your EV costs about $10. It's not that simple because "full" means something very different in a Cybertruck (123kWh battery) vs a base Ioniq 6 (53kWh battery). Likewise the fuel economy is dramatically different with the Cybertruck at 2 miles/kWh Vs the Ioniq 6 at 4.6 miles/kWh. Assuming a cheap electricity rate of $.15/kWh, the Cybertruck will cost $.07/mile to drive. The Ioniq will cost $.03/mile. The regular hybrid Prius gets 56 mpg. At the cheapest current (i.e. Texas) gas price of $3/gallon, it would cost $.05/mile to operate. It will be far less performant than either the Cybertruck or the Ioniq 6, though. > One of the biggest reason for the massive disparity in efficiency on EV's is due to regenerative braking (16-25%). So what's interesting is when you compare an EV to a Hybrid ICE vehicle then the efficiency disparity becomes a lot less and you still have the benefit of being able to take long trips and not needing a home charger. The disparity is still around 28%, which when talking about efficiency is pretty big. > Another benefit to Hybrids is they only require a ~1kWh battery instead of needing a huge 60-70kWh battery like an EV. So you could create 60 or 70 hybrid vehicles for the same amount of lithium mining as one EV. > One has to wonder why the governments aren't just pushing everyone into Hybrids instead of EV's? We aren't lithium constrained, we are battery manufacturing capacity constrained. One goal of the IRA (and its EV incentives) is stimulating the build-out of a domestic battery manufacturing supply chain. That battery production capacity is a strategic asset, not just for cars, but also for stationary storage. It's a win-win for energy security and decarbonization. There are also plugin hybrids that use smaller batteries, but let you use either/both electricity and gasoline (albeit with an efficiency penalty on both drivetrains). Also, 67% of Americans live in single family homes (mostly suburbia), many with an electrical outlet near their parking spot that they can use to charge their cars. These are also the people who drive the most on a per capita basis. > If a young person was asking me to recommend a car and they didn't have a home charger I wouldn't hesitate to recommend something like a new Toyota HEV / Honda e:hev - they are basically an EV with an on-board Atkinson engine as a powerplant. Depends on the young person. For one thing, I wouldn't recommend that any young person buy a new car unless they are very financially comfortable. But if you don't have a home charger (or nearby DC fast charging) it's not a matter of a recommendation, but rather a physical requirement to get an ICE car, so it might as well be a hybrid.
- tsimionescu 3y ago
  The Cybertruck is a bad example, being a car that doesn't really exist (they've sold what, a hundred cars?) and that has at best a tiny niche market (man children living their boyhood dreams of driving a Transformer).
  - danans 3y ago
    > The Cybertruck is a bad example, being a car that doesn't really exist (they've sold what, a hundred cars?) Then sub the F150 Lightning or the Rivian and you'll get basically the same numbers. > and that has at best a tiny niche market (man children living their boyhood dreams of driving a Transformer) I agree with the customer characterization (although I suspect that number of such people out there is higher) and from an efficiency perspective it's just as bad as it's more conventional looking EV truck competitors.
recursive 3y ago
> i've realised the main benefit is how cheap they are to run Depends what you value. For me, that's a nice to have. Greater benefits are: never go to a gas station, no oil changes, no fumes, more fun to drive.
- conk 3y ago
  IMO the lack of fumes/exhaust is my favorite part of owning an EV. Sure there are some downsides with EVs (more expensive to buy, less range, lack of public charging infrastructure) but those don’t impact me and I’d gladly take the negatives for a car that doesn’t smell every time I park it in my garage.
  - f4c39012 3y ago
    There is no lack of fumes. They are somewhere else, that's all.
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      Coal and oil power stations have scrubbers to remove organic and sulphurous compounds from the chimney. In most developed countries, coal and oil is a small part of power generation which continues to decline.
    - recursive 3y ago
      Even if that was true, it's still an improvement.
    - rafabulsing 3y ago
      The resounding success of sewer systems shows that that's a huge improvement.
- Rumudiez 3y ago
  > more fun to drive I’d argue the opposite, but it’s certainly subjective. Driving my sister’s Model 3 was leagues below my cheap little BRZ, and it’s still slower than my motorcycles if I want to accelerate fast. The suspension is crap. Body roll was astoundingly bad and the front end doesn’t want to push you through corners when trail braking. I was excited to drive it, but after 500 miles of backroads and open freeway I firmly believe a cheap sports car is a much better driving experience.
mushufasa 3y ago
I think the savings argument often misses the context of discount rate: the NPV of the savings is a lot less than the total savings, especially with high interest rates.
blue_cadet_3 3y ago
> If you live somewhere where electric costs are very low then a 0 to full charge your EV costs about $10. I rented a Tesla Model 3 recently. From 40% to 98% cost me $7 CAD and I was able to drive from Vancouver to Tacoma, WA on a single charge and arrived with 20% battery. In the Seattle suburbs it cost a bit more, $13 USD, to go from 20% to 90% due to a supercharger station having issues so demand was higher at the next closest one. $7 to go 175mi(283km) sold me on an EV as my next car. I never felt like I would be stranded and when the battery is conditioned for fast charging by time you pop in somewhere to use the bathroom and grab a coffee or snacks you're pretty much good to go.
- strunz 3y ago
  >by time you pop in somewhere to use the bathroom and grab a coffee or snacks you're pretty much good to go. I really think these comments are just EV driver rationalization. You really spend 30-45 minutes at a rest stop on road trips? When we take road trips we spend almost no time stopped. Even if we're eating, it's in the car. I can't even imagine stopping multiple times for 30-45 minutes to recharge, that is not the same as "going to the bathroom and grabbing a snack". That takes like 5 mins tops, the rest is just wasting time you could be on the road.
  - cromka 3y ago
    20 minutes every 6 hours is absolutely minimum for me, if not more often. That’s to stretch, relax, walk around. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t do that. But this is in Europe where distances are smaller.
  - Pet_Ant 3y ago
    Seriously? If I take a shit, it's more than 5 minutes itself. Waiting in line to buy coffee or a donut, let alone eat (I guess if you are in a real hurry eat in your car, but don't you want a break???). Just doing a lap of the parking lot to stretch my legs. Even if that's just 25 minutes, that's still quite a bit of charge. That said I'll still choose a bus or train over a car trip any day I can, but yeah..
  - cjcenizal 3y ago
m_mueller 3y ago
> Anyone thats driven a Hybrid Toyota will tell you that fuel consumption is dramatically less, in my real world scenarios I use about 2.5x less gas in something like a Toyota Corolla Cross compared to my not overly thirsty ICE BMW. well that depends on the ICE car and your driving behaviour. E.g. VW group turbo 4 cylinders from ~5y ago are very efficient. I drive a 5yo Seat Leon ST (basically like a slightly smaller Golf Variant, e.g. a typical European hatchback), and mostly at highway speeds with some mountain driving also. With this I get ~45-47mpg or ~5.0-5.2l/100km. A hybrid would maybe get me up to 50mpg but not much more, as highway speeds are not really where they gain you much. They're great for the occasional shopping run, but where I live those are max. 20min driving both ways, so not that much of an impact either.
- pentae 3y ago
  Absolutely! But most ICE vehicles people drive don’t get anywhere near that type of mileage because we tend to be buying much larger heavier cars. Hybrids help a lot of people get god level mpg and the reduced running costs without needing to go all in on electric
- fho 3y ago
  As "someone with a Toyota hybrid": I consistently use about 1l/100km than that. (The dash keeps a "best milage" number, which is 3.8l/100km for me right now. At some point it becomes bike shedding, but a 20% reduction (from 5l to 4l) is still impressive to me.
  - m_mueller 3y ago
    Indeed. Is that also at highway speeds? And what generation is it, I’m guessing a Prius? Afaik e.g. a Corolla with comparable trunk space as my Leon doesn’t get that low.
    - fho 3y ago
      Nope, a 2013 Yaris (XP13). To be fair I am mostly on rural roads (70-100 km/h) during my commute. But if I am not doing WFH I M doing 100km per day and with our family car that equated to >10€ Gas per day. So getting a used car with great milage was a reasonable decision to me.
phpisthebest 3y ago
I tend to keep my Vehicles longer than most people, currently I drive a 2015 model. All that savings goes out the window if I am hit with with $40,000 to $60,000 repair bill to change the battery, even if my entire drive chain goes out in my ICE I am looking at probably $5,000 and that rarely happens. batteries 100% will need replaced, and ICE can go decades with no major issues
- lanstin 3y ago
  Except global warming.
  - phpisthebest 3y ago
    I have never and will never make a purchasing choice based on global warming
    - lanstin 3y ago
      Why?
      - Solortho 3y ago
        Because greenwashing with batteries mined by children and vegan soy-based food from toxic crops are just a way for snobs for virtue signaling.
        lanstin 3y ago
        You might want to look into the science a bit more. The carbon burn is already having consequences all over the place. Transportation and energy are about 65 percent of the emissions, and solar, batteries, and electric vehicles are pretty simple ways to mitigate the harms. Cows are only about six percent of emissions, so relatively less important. I don’t understand why this simple physical problem of absorbing more infrared radiation has become confused with class warfare. I don’t think the US manufactured batteries are more tied up in child,labor than like regular clothes and chocolate, and ending child labor across the globe is mostly independent of how we power transportation and energy. There is a lot of greenwashing, but actually converting sectors of the economy to non-fossil fuel is not an example of that.
skwirl 3y ago
> the main benefit is how cheap they are to run This is a pretty weak main benefit as ICE cars are already cheap to run. At 12k miles/year, 30 MPG, and $3.20/gallon you are only talking $1300/year in fuel. According to AAA, taking fuel, maintenance, repair, and tires into account someone driving 15k miles a year would only save $330. Given the cost premium on an EV over a comparable ICE car, I’m not sure you would ever come out ahead, although the cost gap is admittedly shrinking.
- shagie 3y ago
  There's a section on XKCD 980's chart for that - https://xkcd.com/980/huge/#x=-2004&y=-6294&z=6 https://xkcd.com/980/huge/#x=-2004&y=-6294&z=6 While it's a bit dated, you can see the parts with the cost difference and the "if gas was this much". You can see some things like the Honda Insight (hybrid) has a slightly lower 5 year cost of ownership than the Honda Fit (ICE). It would be curious to do an update of that part of the chart for current models.
coryfklein 3y ago
EVs are still solidly in the "luxury" category; they're specifically being sold to folks who are not paying attention to the price at the pump in the first place. So I don't understand why "they save you money" is even a selling point at all right now. Once you see folks replacing their beat-up 1992 Honda Civic with EVs then you'll know that "they save you money" is actually a thing.
- jes5199 3y ago
  I have a 2021 Chevy Bolt, it is not a luxury car, it was hella cheap. My sister-in-law drives for Uber/Lyft and bought a Tesla model 3 because the total cost of ownership is lower than any gas car
  - tekknik 3y ago
    Edmunds would disagree with you, showing the Tesla costing almost $20k more to own than a Honda Accord: https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2020/cost-to-own/ https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2020/cost-to-own/ https://www.edmunds.com/honda/accord/2023/cost-to-own/ https://www.edmunds.com/honda/accord/2023/cost-to-own/
  - hollandheese 3y ago
    >I have a 2021 Chevy Bolt, it is not a luxury car, it was hella cheap. For an EV, maybe. Still more expensive than a Honda Civic.
- bluGill 3y ago
  A lot of people have weird budgets. So they will think nothing of $1000/month for a car payment, but complain about gas prices that work out to $100/month. They rarely consider that they could get better mileage luxury car for similar monthly payments but using a lot less gas. Which is to say I do know people who complain about gas prices on their luxury cars.
- insane_dreamer 3y ago
  > EVs are still solidly in the "luxury" category Not all models. With the tax rebate, a Tesla 3 costs nearly the same as a Camry, so does the Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt. If you want a Polestar or Mach-e, sure, then your in BMW/Merc price range.
fho 3y ago
As "somebody who just bought a 2013 Toyota Yaris Hybrid": Full EVs are for some selected few... Here in Germany it's just homeowners with PV already installed. I did the math before deciding on the hybrid and literally everybody else is paying more for electricity (at 0.4€/kWh) and is producing more CO2 (at avg. 400g/kWh). I really pity the guys in their Dacia Spring SUVs in the supermarket parking lots (at 0.6€/kWh) who bought a EV to "do the right thing" here. (That said, that's a problem very unique to Germany ... Most countries around us have cheaper electricity and a smaller CO2 footprint per kWh.)
insane_dreamer 3y ago
> If you live somewhere where electric costs are very low then a 0 to full charge your EV costs about $10. (Someone please correct me if i'm off on this one) Our utility offers very cheap prices at night, so our Tesla 3 costs $2.25 to fully charge vs. $55-70 for our Forester. Also, maintenance is cheaper on EVs.

by pentae 3y ago

danans 3y ago

> If you live somewhere where electric costs are very low then a 0 to full charge your EV costs about $10. It's not that simple because "full" means something very different in a Cybertruck (123kWh battery) vs a base Ioniq 6 (53kWh battery). Likewise the fuel economy is dramatically different with the Cybertruck at 2 miles/kWh Vs the Ioniq 6 at 4.6 miles/kWh. Assuming a cheap electricity rate of $.15/kWh, the Cybertruck will cost $.07/mile to drive. The Ioniq will cost $.03/mile. The regular hybrid Prius gets 56 mpg. At the cheapest current (i.e. Texas) gas price of $3/gallon, it would cost $.05/mile to operate. It will be far less performant than either the Cybertruck or the Ioniq 6, though. > One of the biggest reason for the massive disparity in efficiency on EV's is due to regenerative braking (16-25%). So what's interesting is when you compare an EV to a Hybrid ICE vehicle then the efficiency disparity becomes a lot less and you still have the benefit of being able to take long trips and not needing a home charger. The disparity is still around 28%, which when talking about efficiency is pretty big. > Another benefit to Hybrids is they only require a ~1kWh battery instead of needing a huge 60-70kWh battery like an EV. So you could create 60 or 70 hybrid vehicles for the same amount of lithium mining as one EV. > One has to wonder why the governments aren't just pushing everyone into Hybrids instead of EV's? We aren't lithium constrained, we are battery manufacturing capacity constrained. One goal of the IRA (and its EV incentives) is stimulating the build-out of a domestic battery manufacturing supply chain. That battery production capacity is a strategic asset, not just for cars, but also for stationary storage. It's a win-win for energy security and decarbonization. There are also plugin hybrids that use smaller batteries, but let you use either/both electricity and gasoline (albeit with an efficiency penalty on both drivetrains). Also, 67% of Americans live in single family homes (mostly suburbia), many with an electrical outlet near their parking spot that they can use to charge their cars. These are also the people who drive the most on a per capita basis. > If a young person was asking me to recommend a car and they didn't have a home charger I wouldn't hesitate to recommend something like a new Toyota HEV / Honda e:hev - they are basically an EV with an on-board Atkinson engine as a powerplant. Depends on the young person. For one thing, I wouldn't recommend that any young person buy a new car unless they are very financially comfortable. But if you don't have a home charger (or nearby DC fast charging) it's not a matter of a recommendation, but rather a physical requirement to get an ICE car, so it might as well be a hybrid.

tsimionescu 3y ago
The Cybertruck is a bad example, being a car that doesn't really exist (they've sold what, a hundred cars?) and that has at best a tiny niche market (man children living their boyhood dreams of driving a Transformer).
- danans 3y ago
  > The Cybertruck is a bad example, being a car that doesn't really exist (they've sold what, a hundred cars?) Then sub the F150 Lightning or the Rivian and you'll get basically the same numbers. > and that has at best a tiny niche market (man children living their boyhood dreams of driving a Transformer) I agree with the customer characterization (although I suspect that number of such people out there is higher) and from an efficiency perspective it's just as bad as it's more conventional looking EV truck competitors.

recursive 3y ago

> i've realised the main benefit is how cheap they are to run Depends what you value. For me, that's a nice to have. Greater benefits are: never go to a gas station, no oil changes, no fumes, more fun to drive.

conk 3y ago
IMO the lack of fumes/exhaust is my favorite part of owning an EV. Sure there are some downsides with EVs (more expensive to buy, less range, lack of public charging infrastructure) but those don’t impact me and I’d gladly take the negatives for a car that doesn’t smell every time I park it in my garage.
- f4c39012 3y ago
  There is no lack of fumes. They are somewhere else, that's all.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    Coal and oil power stations have scrubbers to remove organic and sulphurous compounds from the chimney. In most developed countries, coal and oil is a small part of power generation which continues to decline.
  - recursive 3y ago
    Even if that was true, it's still an improvement.
  - rafabulsing 3y ago
    The resounding success of sewer systems shows that that's a huge improvement.
Rumudiez 3y ago
> more fun to drive I’d argue the opposite, but it’s certainly subjective. Driving my sister’s Model 3 was leagues below my cheap little BRZ, and it’s still slower than my motorcycles if I want to accelerate fast. The suspension is crap. Body roll was astoundingly bad and the front end doesn’t want to push you through corners when trail braking. I was excited to drive it, but after 500 miles of backroads and open freeway I firmly believe a cheap sports car is a much better driving experience.

mushufasa 3y ago

I think the savings argument often misses the context of discount rate: the NPV of the savings is a lot less than the total savings, especially with high interest rates.

blue_cadet_3 3y ago

> If you live somewhere where electric costs are very low then a 0 to full charge your EV costs about $10. I rented a Tesla Model 3 recently. From 40% to 98% cost me $7 CAD and I was able to drive from Vancouver to Tacoma, WA on a single charge and arrived with 20% battery. In the Seattle suburbs it cost a bit more, $13 USD, to go from 20% to 90% due to a supercharger station having issues so demand was higher at the next closest one. $7 to go 175mi(283km) sold me on an EV as my next car. I never felt like I would be stranded and when the battery is conditioned for fast charging by time you pop in somewhere to use the bathroom and grab a coffee or snacks you're pretty much good to go.

strunz 3y ago
>by time you pop in somewhere to use the bathroom and grab a coffee or snacks you're pretty much good to go. I really think these comments are just EV driver rationalization. You really spend 30-45 minutes at a rest stop on road trips? When we take road trips we spend almost no time stopped. Even if we're eating, it's in the car. I can't even imagine stopping multiple times for 30-45 minutes to recharge, that is not the same as "going to the bathroom and grabbing a snack". That takes like 5 mins tops, the rest is just wasting time you could be on the road.
- cromka 3y ago
  20 minutes every 6 hours is absolutely minimum for me, if not more often. That’s to stretch, relax, walk around. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t do that. But this is in Europe where distances are smaller.
- Pet_Ant 3y ago
  Seriously? If I take a shit, it's more than 5 minutes itself. Waiting in line to buy coffee or a donut, let alone eat (I guess if you are in a real hurry eat in your car, but don't you want a break???). Just doing a lap of the parking lot to stretch my legs. Even if that's just 25 minutes, that's still quite a bit of charge. That said I'll still choose a bus or train over a car trip any day I can, but yeah..
- cjcenizal 3y ago

m_mueller 3y ago

> Anyone thats driven a Hybrid Toyota will tell you that fuel consumption is dramatically less, in my real world scenarios I use about 2.5x less gas in something like a Toyota Corolla Cross compared to my not overly thirsty ICE BMW. well that depends on the ICE car and your driving behaviour. E.g. VW group turbo 4 cylinders from ~5y ago are very efficient. I drive a 5yo Seat Leon ST (basically like a slightly smaller Golf Variant, e.g. a typical European hatchback), and mostly at highway speeds with some mountain driving also. With this I get ~45-47mpg or ~5.0-5.2l/100km. A hybrid would maybe get me up to 50mpg but not much more, as highway speeds are not really where they gain you much. They're great for the occasional shopping run, but where I live those are max. 20min driving both ways, so not that much of an impact either.

pentae 3y ago
Absolutely! But most ICE vehicles people drive don’t get anywhere near that type of mileage because we tend to be buying much larger heavier cars. Hybrids help a lot of people get god level mpg and the reduced running costs without needing to go all in on electric
fho 3y ago
As "someone with a Toyota hybrid": I consistently use about 1l/100km than that. (The dash keeps a "best milage" number, which is 3.8l/100km for me right now. At some point it becomes bike shedding, but a 20% reduction (from 5l to 4l) is still impressive to me.
- m_mueller 3y ago
  Indeed. Is that also at highway speeds? And what generation is it, I’m guessing a Prius? Afaik e.g. a Corolla with comparable trunk space as my Leon doesn’t get that low.
  - fho 3y ago
    Nope, a 2013 Yaris (XP13). To be fair I am mostly on rural roads (70-100 km/h) during my commute. But if I am not doing WFH I M doing 100km per day and with our family car that equated to >10€ Gas per day. So getting a used car with great milage was a reasonable decision to me.

phpisthebest 3y ago

I tend to keep my Vehicles longer than most people, currently I drive a 2015 model. All that savings goes out the window if I am hit with with $40,000 to $60,000 repair bill to change the battery, even if my entire drive chain goes out in my ICE I am looking at probably $5,000 and that rarely happens. batteries 100% will need replaced, and ICE can go decades with no major issues

lanstin 3y ago
Except global warming.
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  I have never and will never make a purchasing choice based on global warming
  - lanstin 3y ago
    Why?
    - Solortho 3y ago
      Because greenwashing with batteries mined by children and vegan soy-based food from toxic crops are just a way for snobs for virtue signaling.
      - lanstin 3y ago
        You might want to look into the science a bit more. The carbon burn is already having consequences all over the place. Transportation and energy are about 65 percent of the emissions, and solar, batteries, and electric vehicles are pretty simple ways to mitigate the harms. Cows are only about six percent of emissions, so relatively less important. I don’t understand why this simple physical problem of absorbing more infrared radiation has become confused with class warfare. I don’t think the US manufactured batteries are more tied up in child,labor than like regular clothes and chocolate, and ending child labor across the globe is mostly independent of how we power transportation and energy. There is a lot of greenwashing, but actually converting sectors of the economy to non-fossil fuel is not an example of that.

skwirl 3y ago

> the main benefit is how cheap they are to run This is a pretty weak main benefit as ICE cars are already cheap to run. At 12k miles/year, 30 MPG, and $3.20/gallon you are only talking $1300/year in fuel. According to AAA, taking fuel, maintenance, repair, and tires into account someone driving 15k miles a year would only save $330. Given the cost premium on an EV over a comparable ICE car, I’m not sure you would ever come out ahead, although the cost gap is admittedly shrinking.

shagie 3y ago
There's a section on XKCD 980's chart for that - https://xkcd.com/980/huge/#x=-2004&y=-6294&z=6 https://xkcd.com/980/huge/#x=-2004&y=-6294&z=6 While it's a bit dated, you can see the parts with the cost difference and the "if gas was this much". You can see some things like the Honda Insight (hybrid) has a slightly lower 5 year cost of ownership than the Honda Fit (ICE). It would be curious to do an update of that part of the chart for current models.

coryfklein 3y ago

EVs are still solidly in the "luxury" category; they're specifically being sold to folks who are not paying attention to the price at the pump in the first place. So I don't understand why "they save you money" is even a selling point at all right now. Once you see folks replacing their beat-up 1992 Honda Civic with EVs then you'll know that "they save you money" is actually a thing.

jes5199 3y ago
I have a 2021 Chevy Bolt, it is not a luxury car, it was hella cheap. My sister-in-law drives for Uber/Lyft and bought a Tesla model 3 because the total cost of ownership is lower than any gas car
- tekknik 3y ago
  Edmunds would disagree with you, showing the Tesla costing almost $20k more to own than a Honda Accord: https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2020/cost-to-own/ https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2020/cost-to-own/ https://www.edmunds.com/honda/accord/2023/cost-to-own/ https://www.edmunds.com/honda/accord/2023/cost-to-own/
- hollandheese 3y ago
  >I have a 2021 Chevy Bolt, it is not a luxury car, it was hella cheap. For an EV, maybe. Still more expensive than a Honda Civic.
bluGill 3y ago
A lot of people have weird budgets. So they will think nothing of $1000/month for a car payment, but complain about gas prices that work out to $100/month. They rarely consider that they could get better mileage luxury car for similar monthly payments but using a lot less gas. Which is to say I do know people who complain about gas prices on their luxury cars.
insane_dreamer 3y ago
> EVs are still solidly in the "luxury" category Not all models. With the tax rebate, a Tesla 3 costs nearly the same as a Camry, so does the Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt. If you want a Polestar or Mach-e, sure, then your in BMW/Merc price range.

fho 3y ago

As "somebody who just bought a 2013 Toyota Yaris Hybrid": Full EVs are for some selected few... Here in Germany it's just homeowners with PV already installed. I did the math before deciding on the hybrid and literally everybody else is paying more for electricity (at 0.4€/kWh) and is producing more CO2 (at avg. 400g/kWh). I really pity the guys in their Dacia Spring SUVs in the supermarket parking lots (at 0.6€/kWh) who bought a EV to "do the right thing" here. (That said, that's a problem very unique to Germany ... Most countries around us have cheaper electricity and a smaller CO2 footprint per kWh.)

insane_dreamer 3y ago

> If you live somewhere where electric costs are very low then a 0 to full charge your EV costs about $10. (Someone please correct me if i'm off on this one) Our utility offers very cheap prices at night, so our Tesla 3 costs $2.25 to fully charge vs. $55-70 for our Forester. Also, maintenance is cheaper on EVs.