6 ms·

Unfortunately, nothing will change until the system that produced this changes too. No doubt she will retain her tenured position.

matthewdgreen 3y ago
As she should.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > she should Why? What work has she done to deserve tenure?
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    She hasn't written a single book that wasn't field-changing, award-winning, and on the NYT bestseller list. (Of course, the same could be said for me.)
    - znpy 3y ago
      > Of course, the same could be said for me But you didn't get to be the president of Hardvard, did you?
      - gnicholas 3y ago
        Not yet, but I hear the position is open!
        znpy 3y ago
        Hurry up and apply then!
    - KMag 3y ago
      It took me a second to realize you were intentionally using a vacuous truth (any statement is true about all members of an empty set) rather than accidentally inverting "was" as "wasn't".
      - dchftcs 3y ago
        It's a tough one because a PhD dissertation can be seen as a book.
- high_derivative 3y ago
  It's quite apparent from everything that has come to light that she got tenured for the same reason she got to be Harvard president. Merit was not one of the reasons.
  - Larrikin 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - throwaway-blaze 3y ago
      I don't think that's a fair comment.
    - dekhn 3y ago
      This comment is completely uncalled for and is a great example of "low quality attempt at casting your opponent as a racist".
    - ejb999 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - infamouscow 3y ago
    The faculty and entire student body of Harvard are more qualified to be president of Harvard than Claudine Gay. The only reasonable conclusion is she was hired solely for her skin color, which is both discriminatory and racist of Harvard in the first place.
- dekhn 3y ago
  Plagiarists- which Claudine Gay is- should lose their tenure, because their tenure was predicated on them being legitimate scholars, and plagiarists are not legitimate scholars. It was established that she has a skimpy record, and nearly every one of those contains near-duplication of text without attribution. How could you ever trust an academic after it was exposed that they did that (intentionally)? It's hard to be an academic but not plagiarizing is rule #1 or #2.
  - matthewdgreen 3y ago
    Picking one allegation from the top of the list here [1] (number "6"), it appears that she used similar phrasing to another reference, in order to describe a chart in her own work. But as best I can tell, the charts being described are completely different and based off of different datasets. [2, 3] So what I see in this instance is what looks like similar text matching, not theft of ideas or original research. If I'm wrong about this, I'll happily eat my words. Most of this stuff looks like that, or issues where she cited a reference but didn't include proper citations every time she summarized some fact (which should be fixed, but isn't a catastrophe.) [1] https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Complaint2.pdf https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Complaint2... [2] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1078087415620053#fn19-1078087415620053 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/10780874156200... [3] https://www.jstor.org/stable/4121593?seq=12 https://www.jstor.org/stable/4121593?seq=12
    - dekhn 3y ago
      I absolutely agree that in some situations, text that looks like an exact copy isn't plagiarism. Intent matters! But don't pick one allegation- consider all of them. When considered in whole, it's seems fairly clear her modus operandi is to 'copy-paste' entire sections of text and then change small numbers of words. And I suspect she had the intent- to do less work to create text that would get published. But I'm not 100% certain and I don't know what mechanism the plagiarism occurred by. I dojn't think arguing that identical/similar text describing a different analysis is a good line of argument, either- wouldn't text describing charts that were completely different be.... much more different?
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> nothing will change until the system that produced this changes Students chanting “from the river to the sea” while cheering on a terrorist attack may be the shark jump that prompts a systemic change. (Note: there is a huge difference between advocating for Palestinians and supporting Hamas. There is a huger one between supporting Hamas and supporting the October 7th attacks.)
- insickness 3y ago
  I don't support censoring anything students say, no matter how objectionable. Someone will always find something objectionable.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

matthewdgreen 3y ago

As she should.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> she should Why? What work has she done to deserve tenure?
- gnicholas 3y ago
  She hasn't written a single book that wasn't field-changing, award-winning, and on the NYT bestseller list. (Of course, the same could be said for me.)
  - znpy 3y ago
    > Of course, the same could be said for me But you didn't get to be the president of Hardvard, did you?
    - gnicholas 3y ago
      Not yet, but I hear the position is open!
      - znpy 3y ago
        Hurry up and apply then!
  - KMag 3y ago
    It took me a second to realize you were intentionally using a vacuous truth (any statement is true about all members of an empty set) rather than accidentally inverting "was" as "wasn't".
    - dchftcs 3y ago
      It's a tough one because a PhD dissertation can be seen as a book.
high_derivative 3y ago
It's quite apparent from everything that has come to light that she got tenured for the same reason she got to be Harvard president. Merit was not one of the reasons.
- Larrikin 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - throwaway-blaze 3y ago
    I don't think that's a fair comment.
  - dekhn 3y ago
    This comment is completely uncalled for and is a great example of "low quality attempt at casting your opponent as a racist".
  - ejb999 3y ago
    [flagged]
- infamouscow 3y ago
  The faculty and entire student body of Harvard are more qualified to be president of Harvard than Claudine Gay. The only reasonable conclusion is she was hired solely for her skin color, which is both discriminatory and racist of Harvard in the first place.
dekhn 3y ago
Plagiarists- which Claudine Gay is- should lose their tenure, because their tenure was predicated on them being legitimate scholars, and plagiarists are not legitimate scholars. It was established that she has a skimpy record, and nearly every one of those contains near-duplication of text without attribution. How could you ever trust an academic after it was exposed that they did that (intentionally)? It's hard to be an academic but not plagiarizing is rule #1 or #2.
- matthewdgreen 3y ago
  Picking one allegation from the top of the list here [1] (number "6"), it appears that she used similar phrasing to another reference, in order to describe a chart in her own work. But as best I can tell, the charts being described are completely different and based off of different datasets. [2, 3] So what I see in this instance is what looks like similar text matching, not theft of ideas or original research. If I'm wrong about this, I'll happily eat my words. Most of this stuff looks like that, or issues where she cited a reference but didn't include proper citations every time she summarized some fact (which should be fixed, but isn't a catastrophe.) [1] https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Complaint2.pdf https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Complaint2... [2] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1078087415620053#fn19-1078087415620053 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/10780874156200... [3] https://www.jstor.org/stable/4121593?seq=12 https://www.jstor.org/stable/4121593?seq=12
  - dekhn 3y ago
    I absolutely agree that in some situations, text that looks like an exact copy isn't plagiarism. Intent matters! But don't pick one allegation- consider all of them. When considered in whole, it's seems fairly clear her modus operandi is to 'copy-paste' entire sections of text and then change small numbers of words. And I suspect she had the intent- to do less work to create text that would get published. But I'm not 100% certain and I don't know what mechanism the plagiarism occurred by. I dojn't think arguing that identical/similar text describing a different analysis is a good line of argument, either- wouldn't text describing charts that were completely different be.... much more different?

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> nothing will change until the system that produced this changes Students chanting “from the river to the sea” while cheering on a terrorist attack may be the shark jump that prompts a systemic change. (Note: there is a huge difference between advocating for Palestinians and supporting Hamas. There is a huger one between supporting Hamas and supporting the October 7th attacks.)

insickness 3y ago
I don't support censoring anything students say, no matter how objectionable. Someone will always find something objectionable.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 3y ago
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