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What if every newborn received a chip implant under the skin (cryptographically unbreakable, unauthorized removal punishable by law), linked to a central govern

What if every newborn received a chip implant under the skin (cryptographically unbreakable, unauthorized removal punishable by law), linked to a central government database with the chip’s unique identifier and a profile of the newborn’s DNA signature?

Joker_vD 3y ago
There are reasons why SSN or its equivalents are unpopular as web identities. Can you enumerate those reasons?
- tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
  Where I live the SSN-equivalent is extremely popular as web identity. Can you explain why it shouldn't be?
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    Not sure about where you’re from but US institutions often treat the SSN as a secret which should allow account access. Which it’s not by design but nobody wanted to make a better system; it’s why banks have claimed that they are not defrauded by people and instead the fraudsters “steal identities”. To answer the question more directly, it’s treating the identifier like a password that is problematic.
    - maxcoder4 3y ago
      Of course this is extremely stupid (basically using the "username" as a secret, something everyone in IT and itsec knows not to do). If we started using SSN-equivalent identifiers as online ID problem would solve itself because by then they're not a secret anymore. In my country my national ID numbers are nowhere near as problematic as SSN on the US (from what I understand).
    - tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
      Okay, but that is then about authorization and not about "identity". I agree that treating it as a secret is a bad idea. The person said SSN and equivalents, so I guess it depends on what is meant by equivalents. Where I live my personal number is used as identity, but to actually prove I am the owner of it another mechanism is used (private keys embedded in certs). The personal number is very public info by design and can't be used as a secret.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
        If my web identity was my personal government tax identification number, I would be worried that one could use that to fraudulently and successfully claim to be me with a fair number of institutions because the authentication mechanism is lacking efficacy.
        tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
        Yes, I understand, but you mix up identity with proof of identity. My non-web identity is my name. But me saying that my name is John Doe is not a proof that this is my name. In the same way, me saying that I have identification number 12345678 isn't proof that I actually have that number. As I wrote, I have a government issued identification number. This number can be looked up by any citizen in the country since it's public info. You can even look it up online - it's not secret. But someone knowing the number doesn't mean they can prove it is their number, because proof of identity is not in the number itself - for that we use public/private keys and other secure mechanisms. I understand that this is not how it works in the US because some organization treats the SSN as secret. But that's not an issue with government issued identity number as a form of identity, it's an issue with the US system. Other countries does not have the same issue, since they didn't mix up identity with proof of identity.
        Joker_vD 3y ago
        Many people don't want their online identities be easily connected to their offline identity (or even with each other). Hell, you yourself didn't register on HN with your G.I. ID's serial number for some reason, did you?
  - spacebanana7 3y ago
    Most consumer & enterprise web services are international, and making an implementation for every jurisdiction is burdensome. There are also some ugly edge cases - what happens if somebody is too young to get a SSN equivalent (e.g NI numbers in the UK), or somebody expatriates, or if some government allows people to request a change to their SSN-equivalent, or if a customer is a refugee without an SSN equivalent? I do think SSN-equivalent identifiers may be useful for services which are inherently for tax paying adults like some accounting/banking services or marketplaces.
nine_k 3y ago
Some of the chips would malfunction or get destroyed in incidents. You still need an update protocol!
Dan42 3y ago
I can't believe such satirical gold is getting downvoted.
- goodpoint 3y ago
  This is HN. There are equal probabilities that the post is not satirical and that the downvoters are not getting the sarcasm.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
extrememacaroni 3y ago
keep hackernews away from the newborns
tim333 3y ago
Not convinced that's a vote winner. See for example UK id cards scrapped in 1952 and again in 2010 >...very unpopular with the public, and was regarded as an alien imposition on the British way of life. https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/identity-cards/ https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/identity-cards/

Joker_vD 3y ago

There are reasons why SSN or its equivalents are unpopular as web identities. Can you enumerate those reasons?

tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
Where I live the SSN-equivalent is extremely popular as web identity. Can you explain why it shouldn't be?
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  Not sure about where you’re from but US institutions often treat the SSN as a secret which should allow account access. Which it’s not by design but nobody wanted to make a better system; it’s why banks have claimed that they are not defrauded by people and instead the fraudsters “steal identities”. To answer the question more directly, it’s treating the identifier like a password that is problematic.
  - maxcoder4 3y ago
    Of course this is extremely stupid (basically using the "username" as a secret, something everyone in IT and itsec knows not to do). If we started using SSN-equivalent identifiers as online ID problem would solve itself because by then they're not a secret anymore. In my country my national ID numbers are nowhere near as problematic as SSN on the US (from what I understand).
  - tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
    Okay, but that is then about authorization and not about "identity". I agree that treating it as a secret is a bad idea. The person said SSN and equivalents, so I guess it depends on what is meant by equivalents. Where I live my personal number is used as identity, but to actually prove I am the owner of it another mechanism is used (private keys embedded in certs). The personal number is very public info by design and can't be used as a secret.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      If my web identity was my personal government tax identification number, I would be worried that one could use that to fraudulently and successfully claim to be me with a fair number of institutions because the authentication mechanism is lacking efficacy.
      - tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
        Yes, I understand, but you mix up identity with proof of identity. My non-web identity is my name. But me saying that my name is John Doe is not a proof that this is my name. In the same way, me saying that I have identification number 12345678 isn't proof that I actually have that number. As I wrote, I have a government issued identification number. This number can be looked up by any citizen in the country since it's public info. You can even look it up online - it's not secret. But someone knowing the number doesn't mean they can prove it is their number, because proof of identity is not in the number itself - for that we use public/private keys and other secure mechanisms. I understand that this is not how it works in the US because some organization treats the SSN as secret. But that's not an issue with government issued identity number as a form of identity, it's an issue with the US system. Other countries does not have the same issue, since they didn't mix up identity with proof of identity.
        Joker_vD 3y ago
        Many people don't want their online identities be easily connected to their offline identity (or even with each other). Hell, you yourself didn't register on HN with your G.I. ID's serial number for some reason, did you?
- spacebanana7 3y ago
  Most consumer & enterprise web services are international, and making an implementation for every jurisdiction is burdensome. There are also some ugly edge cases - what happens if somebody is too young to get a SSN equivalent (e.g NI numbers in the UK), or somebody expatriates, or if some government allows people to request a change to their SSN-equivalent, or if a customer is a refugee without an SSN equivalent? I do think SSN-equivalent identifiers may be useful for services which are inherently for tax paying adults like some accounting/banking services or marketplaces.

nine_k 3y ago

Some of the chips would malfunction or get destroyed in incidents. You still need an update protocol!

Dan42 3y ago

I can't believe such satirical gold is getting downvoted.

goodpoint 3y ago
This is HN. There are equal probabilities that the post is not satirical and that the downvoters are not getting the sarcasm.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

extrememacaroni 3y ago

keep hackernews away from the newborns

tim333 3y ago

Not convinced that's a vote winner. See for example UK id cards scrapped in 1952 and again in 2010 >...very unpopular with the public, and was regarded as an alien imposition on the British way of life. https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/identity-cards/ https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/identity-cards/