5 ms·

FYI closing this gate has a huge economic impact and is left over to machines. The reasoning is a person living in the country would close this gate by fear of

FYI closing this gate has a huge economic impact and is left over to machines. The reasoning is a person living in the country would close this gate by fear of loosing families etc, here CODE decides when the time is right to close or stay open. It uses a lot of data to monitor and predict the weather.

Someone 3y ago
> The reasoning is a person living in the country would close this gate by fear of loosing families I don’t think that’s true. The official argument is that human operation wouldn’t reach the required reliability level (https://www.cs.vu.nl/~x/sil/sil.html https://www.cs.vu.nl/~x/sil/sil.html: “The failure rate demands for this system were required to be 1:10000 for not closing when this was actually necessary, and 1:100000 for not opening the barrier when requested. This asymmetry is caused by the fact that if the sea surge barrier does not reopen, the river discharge can lead to flooding from the inside.”) I think nobody knows for sure whether the conclusion that software alone would be more reliable than humans alone was correct (my money would be on “it wasn’t”). That’s hard to verify for such a system that “cannot be tested under the conditions for which it was designed” (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220592956_Human_factors_in_system_reliability_lessons_learnt_from_the_Maeslant_storm_surge_barrier_in_The_Netherlands https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220592956_Human_fac...). You can’t do that statistically, either, as in real-world use it would take millennia to collect the necessary data, and that’s way longer than the design life of this structure.
- mcv 3y ago
  > if the sea surge barrier does not reopen, the river discharge can lead to flooding from the inside. Which makes it all the more unique that it closed, because there's a lot of water coming down the Rhine and Waal right now. Rijkswaterstaat (who manages all of this) prepared for this by making more space for the river water to flow and flood in other directions.
  - dendrite9 3y ago
    Do you know of any good resources to see the water levels in such places? I know of some sites for example in California reservoirs, or Snotel and river gauges in the US. But I imagine the information is spread differently in these watersheds.
    - Someone 3y ago
      https://waterinfo.rws.nl/#/publiek/waterhoogte https://waterinfo.rws.nl/#/publiek/waterhoogte.

Someone 3y ago

> The reasoning is a person living in the country would close this gate by fear of loosing families I don’t think that’s true. The official argument is that human operation wouldn’t reach the required reliability level (https://www.cs.vu.nl/~x/sil/sil.html https://www.cs.vu.nl/~x/sil/sil.html: “The failure rate demands for this system were required to be 1:10000 for not closing when this was actually necessary, and 1:100000 for not opening the barrier when requested. This asymmetry is caused by the fact that if the sea surge barrier does not reopen, the river discharge can lead to flooding from the inside.”) I think nobody knows for sure whether the conclusion that software alone would be more reliable than humans alone was correct (my money would be on “it wasn’t”). That’s hard to verify for such a system that “cannot be tested under the conditions for which it was designed” (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220592956_Human_factors_in_system_reliability_lessons_learnt_from_the_Maeslant_storm_surge_barrier_in_The_Netherlands https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220592956_Human_fac...). You can’t do that statistically, either, as in real-world use it would take millennia to collect the necessary data, and that’s way longer than the design life of this structure.

mcv 3y ago
> if the sea surge barrier does not reopen, the river discharge can lead to flooding from the inside. Which makes it all the more unique that it closed, because there's a lot of water coming down the Rhine and Waal right now. Rijkswaterstaat (who manages all of this) prepared for this by making more space for the river water to flow and flood in other directions.
- dendrite9 3y ago
  Do you know of any good resources to see the water levels in such places? I know of some sites for example in California reservoirs, or Snotel and river gauges in the US. But I imagine the information is spread differently in these watersheds.
  - Someone 3y ago
    https://waterinfo.rws.nl/#/publiek/waterhoogte https://waterinfo.rws.nl/#/publiek/waterhoogte.