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I don't really understand how any crypto is "unregulated money" and it's intrinsically the most tracable money store [Edited for some horrible mobile autocorre

I don't really understand how any crypto is "unregulated money" and it's intrinsically the most tracable money store [Edited for some horrible mobile autocorrect attrocities]

block_dagger 3y ago
Traceable via otherwise anonymous addresses. It’s the de-anonymization that’s hard.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > the de-anonymization that’s hard In the few cases I’ve seen someone expend effort on it, it was trivial. Most people have terrible opsec. Even if you do, if you transact with someone who doesn’t (or who will deanonymise you for shockingly-trivial compensation), you’re partly compromised.
  - sebzim4500 3y ago
    I think most people using crypto for illegal purposes will mainly be transacting with people that don't know their identity, so that is not a deanonymising risk. It's true that people sometimes get caught via chainalysis/etc., but I think there is a lot of sampling bias here. Someone who isn't an idiot and washes their funds through dodgy asian exchanges/privacy coins is probably quite safe, even compared to using cash.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > think most people using crypto for illegal purposes will mainly be transacting with people that don't know their identity, so that is not a deanonymising risk Demonstrably untrue. Also, many people using crypto are unknowingly commiting crimes. They're not the smartest bunch. Between taxes and reporting requirements, you can usually nail a crypto user with less than $1k PI time.
      - sebzim4500 3y ago
        If it's demonstrably untrue then demonstrate that it isn't true
kzrdude 3y ago
There are fully anonymous transactions in some of the cryptocurrencies, like in Zcash I believe. I thought such innovations would overtake and make the original bitcoin obsolete, but I've been very wrong, because bitcoin is still popular.
- I_Am_Nous 3y ago
  I think this fact points out the disparity between people using crypto for ideological reasons and them using it for investment reasons. Most people don't care about the whitepaper, just that "stonks only go up" and buy accordingly. So small, good projects aren't as reliable an investment vehicle as a larger, more established coin that is almost guaranteed to be sellable if needed.
- anonfromsomewhe 3y ago
  Zcash is flawed lie. They are not fully anonymous or anything. There were several reports how to trace them.
  - some_furry 3y ago
    Can you link to one of them? All I can recall is "shielded isn't default" and "if you transact too quickly it's risky" from recent memory.
  - kzrdude 3y ago
    Could you elaborate on that? I wasn't able to confirm that, but I'm massively out of the loop too.
- vlovich123 3y ago
  I’m not aware yet that any cryptocurrency has been proven fully impossible to deanonymize, especially if there’s any off ramps anywhere. For example: https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf is for zcash and monero It’s possible that someone comes up with a robust mechanism but if you interact with any other coin (crypto or fiat) it can expose additional side channels that are impossible to close.
jMyles 3y ago
Obviously there are different points of view on this point, but I view transparency and regularity as orthogonal features. Crypto is easy to make both transparent and regular.
csomar 3y ago
It is. But you need to connect these addresses to people and events. That might be feasible if you are the USA and can pressure poeple/companies. But most other countries/jurisdiction don’t even have the technical capacity to do such a thing.

I don't really understand how any crypto is "unregulated money" and it's intrinsically the most tracable money store [Edited for some horrible mobile autocorrect attrocities]

block_dagger 3y ago

Traceable via otherwise anonymous addresses. It’s the de-anonymization that’s hard.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> the de-anonymization that’s hard In the few cases I’ve seen someone expend effort on it, it was trivial. Most people have terrible opsec. Even if you do, if you transact with someone who doesn’t (or who will deanonymise you for shockingly-trivial compensation), you’re partly compromised.
- sebzim4500 3y ago
  I think most people using crypto for illegal purposes will mainly be transacting with people that don't know their identity, so that is not a deanonymising risk. It's true that people sometimes get caught via chainalysis/etc., but I think there is a lot of sampling bias here. Someone who isn't an idiot and washes their funds through dodgy asian exchanges/privacy coins is probably quite safe, even compared to using cash.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > think most people using crypto for illegal purposes will mainly be transacting with people that don't know their identity, so that is not a deanonymising risk Demonstrably untrue. Also, many people using crypto are unknowingly commiting crimes. They're not the smartest bunch. Between taxes and reporting requirements, you can usually nail a crypto user with less than $1k PI time.
    - sebzim4500 3y ago
      If it's demonstrably untrue then demonstrate that it isn't true

kzrdude 3y ago

There are fully anonymous transactions in some of the cryptocurrencies, like in Zcash I believe. I thought such innovations would overtake and make the original bitcoin obsolete, but I've been very wrong, because bitcoin is still popular.

I_Am_Nous 3y ago
I think this fact points out the disparity between people using crypto for ideological reasons and them using it for investment reasons. Most people don't care about the whitepaper, just that "stonks only go up" and buy accordingly. So small, good projects aren't as reliable an investment vehicle as a larger, more established coin that is almost guaranteed to be sellable if needed.
anonfromsomewhe 3y ago
Zcash is flawed lie. They are not fully anonymous or anything. There were several reports how to trace them.
- some_furry 3y ago
  Can you link to one of them? All I can recall is "shielded isn't default" and "if you transact too quickly it's risky" from recent memory.
- kzrdude 3y ago
  Could you elaborate on that? I wasn't able to confirm that, but I'm massively out of the loop too.
vlovich123 3y ago
I’m not aware yet that any cryptocurrency has been proven fully impossible to deanonymize, especially if there’s any off ramps anywhere. For example: https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf is for zcash and monero It’s possible that someone comes up with a robust mechanism but if you interact with any other coin (crypto or fiat) it can expose additional side channels that are impossible to close.

jMyles 3y ago

Obviously there are different points of view on this point, but I view transparency and regularity as orthogonal features. Crypto is easy to make both transparent and regular.

csomar 3y ago

It is. But you need to connect these addresses to people and events. That might be feasible if you are the USA and can pressure poeple/companies. But most other countries/jurisdiction don’t even have the technical capacity to do such a thing.