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Google Will Stop Telling Law Enforcement Which Users Were Near a Crime

67 points by grammers 3y ago

nulld3v 3y ago
Unfortunately, I'm fairly sure this wouldn't really help given that service providers still maintain records of which phones connected to which towers. It's still a nice change though, and I like that they allow users to still send encrypted backups of their location history to the cloud.
- thfuran 3y ago
  Service providers don't just maintain history, they package up real time location info for sale through third parties.
  - DistractionRect 3y ago
    The tin foil hats among us will be quick to say that this move is to drive sales of real time data. If they remove history but sell real time data, customers that require location history will be forced to be buy real-time data at scale in perpetuity.
- ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
  Yup. Leave your phone at home if you're gonna commit a crime.
  - function_seven 3y ago
    I’m worried about others in my vicinity committing crimes. Should I leave my phone at home whenever I get a spidy sense that a criminal will be crime-ing within a 100 yards of me?
    - eviks 3y ago
      Unless you have a stronger sense that a criminal will be crime-ing within a 100 yards of your home where you left your phone
est31 3y ago
Tbh with 5G around, there is no need for Google's data. Carriers can localize phones well enough already now.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  I honestly want my old landline phone back.
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    Can’t localize that!
    - rightbyte 3y ago
      Sure you can, but it wont be moving.
    - type0 3y ago
      if you believe 90s movies you should be able to speak for less than 60 seconds before it's detected
      - function_seven 3y ago
        This was true before digital switches were ubiquitous. To trace a call that was routed through mechanical switches, actual people would have to spring into action and actually trace the circuit through the selectors and trunks and whatnot. A surprising number of places were still served by these ancient switches into the late 80s. Maybe even early 90s?
        hilbert42 3y ago
        "...actual people would have to spring into action and actually trace the circuit through the selectors" Yeah, reminiscent of scenes from old movies, you'd have to keep crooks talking long enough to manually trace engaged selectors through the exchange. If a crook hung up before a trace was completed one mightn't have the full number but only half of it, this at least could place cops in the right ballpark/area. If you're a crook another great advantage of step-by-step Strowger exchanges is that the only indication that a call has been made from one's telephone is a single incremental relay-type counter on one's telephone line for the purpose of charging the customer—one click on the counter one call. Unless someone is standing by the counter in the exchange when a call is made then the time of the call and the number phoned would never be recorded. Given privacy violations and such shenanigans these days it seems to me one doesn't have to be a crook to benefit from ancient Stronger switch exchanges. Shame they've all now bitten the dust just when we need them.
advisedwang 3y ago
The actual blog post that this article rehashes: https://blog.google/products/maps/updates-to-location-history-and-new-controls-coming-soon-to-maps/ https://blog.google/products/maps/updates-to-location-histor...
- risfriend 3y ago
  Google itself today tries to get you to back up everything online to be used across its ecosystem. If I choose to pause my "Web and app activity" - https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols?pli=1 https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols?pli=1 after which my activity stops getting backed up online, Google also stops storing any sort of history on local device - across all google apps - either allow everything or zero history. No local caching, not even my last search shows up in maps. Will be interested to see if this behavior changes.
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660646 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660646
jakobov 3y ago
Maybe a bit contrarian but unless law enforcement is abusing this I think it's good for Google to share this info. I want to live in a society where criminals are caught.
- throwaway14356 3y ago
  With everyone carrying a phone things are getting increasingly silly. The convincing part to me is the bad guys increasingly sophisticated use of technology. They know exactly where the victims are 24/7 (if they want to)
- _8j50 3y ago
  You would like China then. In the US and most of the west, governments derive their power from the governed, which means their ability to investigate crime is at the consent of the governed as well. It is due to the law not catching up to technology that google has been allowed to share that information. If cops need information to catch criminals they should get warrants. No company can refuse such a request so long as a magistrate reviews it as being a lawful pursuit of justice.
  - hilbert42 3y ago
    "...is due to the law not catching up to technology..." Tragically, it's not only in this area that governments are woefully behind. Smart operators and Big Tech are so far ahead in the IT/communications game that dismantling many of the most egregious aspects of it will be nigh on impossible. Users are now addicted to so-called free services etc. to such an extent that weening them off them just isn't practical. Even if governments were now 100% committed to fixing the problems—which they aren't by a long shot—then it'd still take many decades to fix.
- eviks 3y ago
  That's not contrarian, this is an extremely common ignorant view similar to "nothing to hide" (of course they are abusing it and not catching themselves)
- netsharc 3y ago

67 points by grammers 3y ago

Unfortunately, I'm fairly sure this wouldn't really help given that service providers still maintain records of which phones connected to which towers. It's still a nice change though, and I like that they allow users to still send encrypted backups of their location history to the cloud.

thfuran 3y ago
Service providers don't just maintain history, they package up real time location info for sale through third parties.
- DistractionRect 3y ago
  The tin foil hats among us will be quick to say that this move is to drive sales of real time data. If they remove history but sell real time data, customers that require location history will be forced to be buy real-time data at scale in perpetuity.
ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
Yup. Leave your phone at home if you're gonna commit a crime.
- function_seven 3y ago
  I’m worried about others in my vicinity committing crimes. Should I leave my phone at home whenever I get a spidy sense that a criminal will be crime-ing within a 100 yards of me?
  - eviks 3y ago
    Unless you have a stronger sense that a criminal will be crime-ing within a 100 yards of your home where you left your phone

est31 3y ago

Tbh with 5G around, there is no need for Google's data. Carriers can localize phones well enough already now.

rightbyte 3y ago
I honestly want my old landline phone back.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  Can’t localize that!
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    Sure you can, but it wont be moving.
  - type0 3y ago
    if you believe 90s movies you should be able to speak for less than 60 seconds before it's detected
    - function_seven 3y ago
      This was true before digital switches were ubiquitous. To trace a call that was routed through mechanical switches, actual people would have to spring into action and actually trace the circuit through the selectors and trunks and whatnot. A surprising number of places were still served by these ancient switches into the late 80s. Maybe even early 90s?
      - hilbert42 3y ago
        "...actual people would have to spring into action and actually trace the circuit through the selectors" Yeah, reminiscent of scenes from old movies, you'd have to keep crooks talking long enough to manually trace engaged selectors through the exchange. If a crook hung up before a trace was completed one mightn't have the full number but only half of it, this at least could place cops in the right ballpark/area. If you're a crook another great advantage of step-by-step Strowger exchanges is that the only indication that a call has been made from one's telephone is a single incremental relay-type counter on one's telephone line for the purpose of charging the customer—one click on the counter one call. Unless someone is standing by the counter in the exchange when a call is made then the time of the call and the number phoned would never be recorded. Given privacy violations and such shenanigans these days it seems to me one doesn't have to be a crook to benefit from ancient Stronger switch exchanges. Shame they've all now bitten the dust just when we need them.

advisedwang 3y ago

The actual blog post that this article rehashes: https://blog.google/products/maps/updates-to-location-history-and-new-controls-coming-soon-to-maps/ https://blog.google/products/maps/updates-to-location-histor...

risfriend 3y ago
Google itself today tries to get you to back up everything online to be used across its ecosystem. If I choose to pause my "Web and app activity" - https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols?pli=1 https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols?pli=1 after which my activity stops getting backed up online, Google also stops storing any sort of history on local device - across all google apps - either allow everything or zero history. No local caching, not even my last search shows up in maps. Will be interested to see if this behavior changes.

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660646 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660646

jakobov 3y ago

Maybe a bit contrarian but unless law enforcement is abusing this I think it's good for Google to share this info. I want to live in a society where criminals are caught.

throwaway14356 3y ago
With everyone carrying a phone things are getting increasingly silly. The convincing part to me is the bad guys increasingly sophisticated use of technology. They know exactly where the victims are 24/7 (if they want to)
_8j50 3y ago
You would like China then. In the US and most of the west, governments derive their power from the governed, which means their ability to investigate crime is at the consent of the governed as well. It is due to the law not catching up to technology that google has been allowed to share that information. If cops need information to catch criminals they should get warrants. No company can refuse such a request so long as a magistrate reviews it as being a lawful pursuit of justice.
- hilbert42 3y ago
  "...is due to the law not catching up to technology..." Tragically, it's not only in this area that governments are woefully behind. Smart operators and Big Tech are so far ahead in the IT/communications game that dismantling many of the most egregious aspects of it will be nigh on impossible. Users are now addicted to so-called free services etc. to such an extent that weening them off them just isn't practical. Even if governments were now 100% committed to fixing the problems—which they aren't by a long shot—then it'd still take many decades to fix.
eviks 3y ago
That's not contrarian, this is an extremely common ignorant view similar to "nothing to hide" (of course they are abusing it and not catching themselves)
netsharc 3y ago