5 ms·

That’s an interesting parallel, Gazan’s response is also borne of a history of oppression. Living with food insecurity, being an intergenerational refugee unabl

That’s an interesting parallel, Gazan’s response is also borne of a history of oppression. Living with food insecurity, being an intergenerational refugee unable to return to home a few miles away, watching family members harmed, etc seems to motivate a lot of Palestinian behavior.

ifdefdebug 3y ago
"being an intergenerational refugee" is one of the most absurd problems that exist in this conflict. Nobody should be a refugee just because their grandparents were. They should be plain citizens of whatever region they were born in. If we extrapolate this stance to other past conflicts, we'd have today tens of millions of German "intergenerational" refugees sitting in Germany and waiting for their return to their home a few miles away, across the Oder river.
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  Yes, that's why the Palestinians need a proper state of their own, so the absurdity can end.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    The idea that every nation needs a state (and every state exists to serve one nation) is part of the absurdity! It's what got us into this mess in the first place—the Jews needed a state of their own because the rest of us couldn't stand to let them make their home near us. The problem of intergenerational refugees will not be solved by carving out a new state and shipping everyone back there.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
natch 3y ago
Their ancestors lost their homes when they needlessly started, and then lost, a war against people who owned land outright and others who moved onto the land only after the UN divided it and gave a vast proportion of it to Jordan, and part to Israel… ancestors who also abandoned their land after the war defeat on the advice of their warlike leaders. The ones who stayed behind became Israeli (Arab muslims, Christians, etc.) and kept their land as long as they held valid documented title to it, and many of those who made that move (or whose parents did) say they would prefer to live under Israeli rule versus PA rule. The Youtuber TravelinIsrael has some good videos on history about this. Obviously there are also modern alleged losses of land and homes but each case has its own details. In some, Israelis (often settlers) are clearly in the wrong, but in others, it is less clear and more disputed than common rhetoric about “oppression” and “occupation” would imply.
- metta2uall 3y ago
  "Their ancestors lost their homes when they needlessly started, and then lost, a war" - the Palestinian villagers did not start any wars - the war was started by the rulers of neighboring states...
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  > moved onto the land only after the UN divided it Why should people who have lived in an area for generations heed the dictates of nations thousands of miles away? > ancestors who also abandoned their land after the war defeat on the advice of their warlike leaders. This is a gross misrepresentation of what actually happened. A full accounting won't fit in an HN comment, but it's beyond question that many Palestinians were expelled at gunpoint from homes they had been living in for generations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_from_Lydda_and_Ramle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_fro... Personally, I would recommend the series "Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem" [0]. The guy behind it is a former US DoD contractor who worked for many years with the IDF, friends with Israeli soldiers, etc, but who is also married to a woman with Palestinian relatives. It's extremely well-researched, and explains the motivations of all the players without exculpating any side. [0]: https://martyrmade.com/fear-loathing-in-the-new-jerusalem/ https://martyrmade.com/fear-loathing-in-the-new-jerusalem/
  - ignoramous 3y ago
    > beyond question that many Palestinians were expelled at gunpoint from homes You'd surprised how many out right reject this ever happened, including some prominent "Zionists" in tech. There's some alternate reality that some of us were simply not part of, but yet find ourselves with them in this shared reality.
    - ngcazz 3y ago
      It's a matter of public record and well articulated by Ilan Pappé at the very least, that the Zionists were intent on capturing Palestine for themselves and removing everyone they could by any means necessary. If they could buy out the properties they would, but as they faced mounting resistance they resorted to violence. Ben-Gurion and his ilk were criminals even if lionized

ifdefdebug 3y ago

"being an intergenerational refugee" is one of the most absurd problems that exist in this conflict. Nobody should be a refugee just because their grandparents were. They should be plain citizens of whatever region they were born in. If we extrapolate this stance to other past conflicts, we'd have today tens of millions of German "intergenerational" refugees sitting in Germany and waiting for their return to their home a few miles away, across the Oder river.

Georgelemental 3y ago
Yes, that's why the Palestinians need a proper state of their own, so the absurdity can end.
- lolinder 3y ago
  The idea that every nation needs a state (and every state exists to serve one nation) is part of the absurdity! It's what got us into this mess in the first place—the Jews needed a state of their own because the rest of us couldn't stand to let them make their home near us. The problem of intergenerational refugees will not be solved by carving out a new state and shipping everyone back there.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

natch 3y ago

Their ancestors lost their homes when they needlessly started, and then lost, a war against people who owned land outright and others who moved onto the land only after the UN divided it and gave a vast proportion of it to Jordan, and part to Israel… ancestors who also abandoned their land after the war defeat on the advice of their warlike leaders. The ones who stayed behind became Israeli (Arab muslims, Christians, etc.) and kept their land as long as they held valid documented title to it, and many of those who made that move (or whose parents did) say they would prefer to live under Israeli rule versus PA rule. The Youtuber TravelinIsrael has some good videos on history about this. Obviously there are also modern alleged losses of land and homes but each case has its own details. In some, Israelis (often settlers) are clearly in the wrong, but in others, it is less clear and more disputed than common rhetoric about “oppression” and “occupation” would imply.

metta2uall 3y ago
"Their ancestors lost their homes when they needlessly started, and then lost, a war" - the Palestinian villagers did not start any wars - the war was started by the rulers of neighboring states...
Georgelemental 3y ago
> moved onto the land only after the UN divided it Why should people who have lived in an area for generations heed the dictates of nations thousands of miles away? > ancestors who also abandoned their land after the war defeat on the advice of their warlike leaders. This is a gross misrepresentation of what actually happened. A full accounting won't fit in an HN comment, but it's beyond question that many Palestinians were expelled at gunpoint from homes they had been living in for generations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_from_Lydda_and_Ramle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_fro... Personally, I would recommend the series "Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem" [0]. The guy behind it is a former US DoD contractor who worked for many years with the IDF, friends with Israeli soldiers, etc, but who is also married to a woman with Palestinian relatives. It's extremely well-researched, and explains the motivations of all the players without exculpating any side. [0]: https://martyrmade.com/fear-loathing-in-the-new-jerusalem/ https://martyrmade.com/fear-loathing-in-the-new-jerusalem/
- ignoramous 3y ago
  > beyond question that many Palestinians were expelled at gunpoint from homes You'd surprised how many out right reject this ever happened, including some prominent "Zionists" in tech. There's some alternate reality that some of us were simply not part of, but yet find ourselves with them in this shared reality.
  - ngcazz 3y ago
    It's a matter of public record and well articulated by Ilan Pappé at the very least, that the Zionists were intent on capturing Palestine for themselves and removing everyone they could by any means necessary. If they could buy out the properties they would, but as they faced mounting resistance they resorted to violence. Ben-Gurion and his ilk were criminals even if lionized