7 ms·

An open source client for iMessage is going to be used for fraud and spam. Before this, a device being blocked by Apple because it was used for fraud or spam wo

by mh8h 3y ago

An open source client for iMessage is going to be used for fraud and spam. Before this, a device being blocked by Apple because it was used for fraud or spam would increase the cost of business for fraudsters and spammers. But now it's a matter of picking a new phone number. Of course Apple would try hard to stop this.

Banditoz 3y ago
Is spam a good reason for Apple to keep their iMessage garden exclusive? SMS is also widely used for spam.
- StressedDev 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - freedomben 3y ago
    Beeper doesn't give you iMessage. It just makes you appear as a "blue bubble" to people who are on iMessage.
    - robertoandred 3y ago
      A blue bubble = iMessage. If it's green, you're not on iMessage.
    - MBCook 3y ago
      That’s what blue bubble means. You’re talking through the iMessage service.
    - nickpeterson 3y ago
      So basically it helps make it harder to sort out if something is spam.. All my SMS spam is green bubbles.
    - Jtsummers 3y ago
      > It just makes you appear as a "blue bubble" to people who are on iMessage. Received messages on iPhones show up as neither blue nor green. They always have a gray background. The blue and green bubbles are the colors of the messages sent by the iPhone users on their own phones. Recipients, on other iPhones, will see messages with a gray background regardless of whether it was sent with iMessage or SMS/MMS.
- MBCook 3y ago
  Yes. It exists but (for me) is non-existent. I know others do get it. I’ve never thought about it but that would be a huge black mark and could end up pushing a lot of people to WhatsApp/FaceBook Messenger/whatever.
- mh8h 3y ago
  I am not in the position to judge that. But reducing spam on iMessage is beneficial for Apple customers, and as a customer, I want Apple to be able to do that.
- lawgimenez 3y ago
  I’m in Asia, my phone number has been with me for almost a decade. I haven’t received spam in a blue bubble, only on SMS (green). Just want to give you a perspective in the other part of the world. This are not just spam but most are sms phishing with links. We have poor, inadequate cyber laws, so we are glad Apple is doing its part sealing this off.
- StressedDev 3y ago
  Yes - As an iPhone users, I am not really interested in getting more SPAM.
jeroenhd 3y ago
This is exactly why Signal closed their source code: if you allow access to your network, you're only accepting spam. For their users' security, it's essential that they must guard access to their network as much as possible.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  > if you allow access to your network, you're only accepting spam. Well no; spam yes, only spam no.
- meonkeys 3y ago
  I feel the need to get a bit pedantic here. I'm not trying to pick a fight; I truly hope it helps clear up a few things. Signal is open source. It's a fair argument that they make it difficult to use servers other than theirs, and we can't be sure exactly what they run server-side, but their code is possible to fork and all that. Their licensing is clear. Even the choice of AGPL is significant here: they must provide the source for exactly what they run on their server. Network access is orthogonal to source availability/openness. Closing source as a means to limit access is security through obscurity. Not to say that it wouldn't work, but we certainly wouldn't expect the Signal Foundation to take this approach. The most significant measure Signal uses to manage access to their network has to do with the phone number requirement. That's an intentional choice on their part (arguably controversial, but I don't have an opinion about it). I've never received a spam message from another Signal user... is this common for you (or anyone)? I think in all the years I've used Signal I've only received less than 5 spammy "message requests" that are quite obvious/easy to decline because I don't already have their phone number in my contacts. I've always had to first ask someone "hey, can we use Signal?" so I'm already expecting legitimate message requests when they arrive.
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    I was hoping the /s wasn't necessary, but just to be clear: my comment was entirely sarcastic. Signal has had its issues in terms of open source-ness (like that time they stopped publishing their code for quite some time) but the client and server are open source, and while they're not huge fans of alternative clients, they have designed their protocol so that it's practically impossible for them to refuse alternative clients, purely out of privacy considerations. Now that Signal has usernames you can share, rather than phone numbers, I think the phone number decision is a lot less problematic. Strangely enough, I did receive spam this week. Or at least I think I did, an account I didn't recognise with a profile picture of a woman I didn't recognise sent me "hi". This coincided with my first SMS spam of the year and spam on an email address I used for one specific company, so I guess they've been hacked and had their database dumped. Maybe I'm just lucky, but spam just isn't a problem for me.

by mh8h 3y ago

Banditoz 3y ago

Is spam a good reason for Apple to keep their iMessage garden exclusive? SMS is also widely used for spam.

StressedDev 3y ago
[flagged]
- freedomben 3y ago
  Beeper doesn't give you iMessage. It just makes you appear as a "blue bubble" to people who are on iMessage.
  - robertoandred 3y ago
    A blue bubble = iMessage. If it's green, you're not on iMessage.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    That’s what blue bubble means. You’re talking through the iMessage service.
  - nickpeterson 3y ago
    So basically it helps make it harder to sort out if something is spam.. All my SMS spam is green bubbles.
  - Jtsummers 3y ago
    > It just makes you appear as a "blue bubble" to people who are on iMessage. Received messages on iPhones show up as neither blue nor green. They always have a gray background. The blue and green bubbles are the colors of the messages sent by the iPhone users on their own phones. Recipients, on other iPhones, will see messages with a gray background regardless of whether it was sent with iMessage or SMS/MMS.
MBCook 3y ago
Yes. It exists but (for me) is non-existent. I know others do get it. I’ve never thought about it but that would be a huge black mark and could end up pushing a lot of people to WhatsApp/FaceBook Messenger/whatever.
mh8h 3y ago
I am not in the position to judge that. But reducing spam on iMessage is beneficial for Apple customers, and as a customer, I want Apple to be able to do that.
lawgimenez 3y ago
I’m in Asia, my phone number has been with me for almost a decade. I haven’t received spam in a blue bubble, only on SMS (green). Just want to give you a perspective in the other part of the world. This are not just spam but most are sms phishing with links. We have poor, inadequate cyber laws, so we are glad Apple is doing its part sealing this off.
StressedDev 3y ago
Yes - As an iPhone users, I am not really interested in getting more SPAM.

jeroenhd 3y ago

This is exactly why Signal closed their source code: if you allow access to your network, you're only accepting spam. For their users' security, it's essential that they must guard access to their network as much as possible.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
> if you allow access to your network, you're only accepting spam. Well no; spam yes, only spam no.
meonkeys 3y ago
I feel the need to get a bit pedantic here. I'm not trying to pick a fight; I truly hope it helps clear up a few things. Signal is open source. It's a fair argument that they make it difficult to use servers other than theirs, and we can't be sure exactly what they run server-side, but their code is possible to fork and all that. Their licensing is clear. Even the choice of AGPL is significant here: they must provide the source for exactly what they run on their server. Network access is orthogonal to source availability/openness. Closing source as a means to limit access is security through obscurity. Not to say that it wouldn't work, but we certainly wouldn't expect the Signal Foundation to take this approach. The most significant measure Signal uses to manage access to their network has to do with the phone number requirement. That's an intentional choice on their part (arguably controversial, but I don't have an opinion about it). I've never received a spam message from another Signal user... is this common for you (or anyone)? I think in all the years I've used Signal I've only received less than 5 spammy "message requests" that are quite obvious/easy to decline because I don't already have their phone number in my contacts. I've always had to first ask someone "hey, can we use Signal?" so I'm already expecting legitimate message requests when they arrive.
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  I was hoping the /s wasn't necessary, but just to be clear: my comment was entirely sarcastic. Signal has had its issues in terms of open source-ness (like that time they stopped publishing their code for quite some time) but the client and server are open source, and while they're not huge fans of alternative clients, they have designed their protocol so that it's practically impossible for them to refuse alternative clients, purely out of privacy considerations. Now that Signal has usernames you can share, rather than phone numbers, I think the phone number decision is a lot less problematic. Strangely enough, I did receive spam this week. Or at least I think I did, an account I didn't recognise with a profile picture of a woman I didn't recognise sent me "hi". This coincided with my first SMS spam of the year and spam on an email address I used for one specific company, so I guess they've been hacked and had their database dumped. Maybe I'm just lucky, but spam just isn't a problem for me.