8 ms·

Yeah, OpenAI lost a bit of its magic. It's sad because it was really fun so far to see all the great progress. But there are so many unanswered questions still

Yeah, OpenAI lost a bit of its magic. It's sad because it was really fun so far to see all the great progress. But there are so many unanswered questions still and the lack of transparency is an issue, as is the cult like behavior that can be observed recently.

peanuty1 3y ago
By cult-like behavior, are you referring to 700+ OpenAI employees threatening to quit unless the board brought back Altman?
- croes 3y ago
  Peer pressure. https://nitter.net/JacquesThibs/status/1727134087176204410 https://nitter.net/JacquesThibs/status/1727134087176204410 Like in a cult.
- giardini 3y ago
  How many of OpenAI's employees are actually developing the software they market? 700+ seems awfully high.
  - quickthrower2 3y ago
    Not this again!
    - giardini 3y ago
      quickthrower2 says: >"Not this again!"< I am unenlightened by your short missive. Perhaps there you could point to something clarifying your intent - something like, say: "This has been previously discussed ad nauseum in the Fortune magazine article at URL..." or "Here's a similar post and the details of OpenAI URL." Thank you.
      - quickthrower2 3y ago
        It is a HN trope to say why does company X need so many employees. Usually said about world class companies. Usually because you can build something that looks like it in a weekend with React and MongoDB (although OpenAI you can’t prototype like that).
        giardini 3y ago
        quickthrower2 says >"It is a HN trope to say why does company X need so many employees."< I have not gathered the statistics that you undoubtedly have compiled. Please feel free to post them here in support of your grammar specificity for the usage of "HN trope". There was however a post titled "Why big tech companies need so many people" at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34734655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34734655 --------------------- quickthrower2 says >" Usually because you can build something that looks like it in a weekend"< Yes, but that is a fair comparison, n'est-ce pas?
    - giardini 3y ago
      No, no, no! Please, if I may elaborate: Q. How many programmers and engineers does it take to build an LLM and fire it up? Some here implicitly speak as if they are familiar with LLMs, and so I assumed that the answer could be 1, 2 or possibly a handful of people to do the deed. But it seems I am very wrong. Nonetheless by the time one has 700+ employees, surely someone in charge would have noticed that the room was crowded. And why not the same at 500, or 200 or even 50 or fewer? Perhaps the lack of oxygen has something to do with it? Might I suggest opening a window or two?
      - quickthrower2 3y ago
        Ops, Scaling up, Site Reliability, Research, Marketing, Front end Web, Training (needs Humans, means needs organisation) Legal etc. There is a lot going on. R&D in other words the next AI breakthrough. Pretty lean if you compare it to Google and realize it is not far off being as good and would be the world’s best search if Google did’t exist. How many people do Google employ!
        giardini 3y ago
        Unnecessary items: Scaling up - static website is enuf. Site Reliability - ditto. Front End Web - ditto. Necessary items: Ops - Gotta have someone who understands computers! Yes. Research - Here's the work. Yes. Training - No. Hire people carefully, fire quickly. Legal - minimal - hire a small law firm. So ~700 people mostly in Research and some cash for Legal? The scope of work must far exceed the scope of the task. Time to trim. Comparisons to Google makes no sense.
    - giardini 3y ago
      I just read "Ego, Fear and Money: How the A.I. Fuse Was Lit" https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/03/technology/ai-openai-musk-page-altman.html?unlocked_article_code=1.DE0.pUkn.sv7oZCK-dy7b&hpgrp=c-abar&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/03/technology/ai-openai-musk... In discussing OpenAI the article reveals why OpenAI is the size it is: OpenAI was created before LLMs were so popular, so OpenAI has a diverse employee pool of AI people. Many, if not most, were hired NOT for LLM or even NN knowledge but for knowledge of the more general field of AI. Were you an OpenAI exec who fervently believed LLMs would take you to true AI then there would be every reason to dump the non-LLM employees (likely a majority and a financial burden) and hire new staff who are more LLM-knowledgeable. At the same time, current OpenAI staff not familiar with LLMs are undoubtedly cramming!8-)) So that satisfies my question as to why OpenAI has so many people: only a fraction of the company produced the current hot products.
0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
For those who are curious here's some background on the "cult like behavior" rumors https://nitter.net/JacquesThibs/status/1727134087176204410#m https://nitter.net/JacquesThibs/status/1727134087176204410#m "The early employees have the most $$$$ to lose and snort the company koolaid [...] They were calling people in the middle of the night" "The before ChatGPT [employees] are cultists and Sam Altman bootlickers" From anonymous posts on Blind, current/former OpenAI employee

peanuty1 3y ago

By cult-like behavior, are you referring to 700+ OpenAI employees threatening to quit unless the board brought back Altman?

croes 3y ago
Peer pressure. https://nitter.net/JacquesThibs/status/1727134087176204410 https://nitter.net/JacquesThibs/status/1727134087176204410 Like in a cult.
giardini 3y ago
How many of OpenAI's employees are actually developing the software they market? 700+ seems awfully high.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  Not this again!
  - giardini 3y ago
    quickthrower2 says: >"Not this again!"< I am unenlightened by your short missive. Perhaps there you could point to something clarifying your intent - something like, say: "This has been previously discussed ad nauseum in the Fortune magazine article at URL..." or "Here's a similar post and the details of OpenAI URL." Thank you.
    - quickthrower2 3y ago
      It is a HN trope to say why does company X need so many employees. Usually said about world class companies. Usually because you can build something that looks like it in a weekend with React and MongoDB (although OpenAI you can’t prototype like that).
      - giardini 3y ago
        quickthrower2 says >"It is a HN trope to say why does company X need so many employees."< I have not gathered the statistics that you undoubtedly have compiled. Please feel free to post them here in support of your grammar specificity for the usage of "HN trope". There was however a post titled "Why big tech companies need so many people" at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34734655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34734655 --------------------- quickthrower2 says >" Usually because you can build something that looks like it in a weekend"< Yes, but that is a fair comparison, n'est-ce pas?
  - giardini 3y ago
    No, no, no! Please, if I may elaborate: Q. How many programmers and engineers does it take to build an LLM and fire it up? Some here implicitly speak as if they are familiar with LLMs, and so I assumed that the answer could be 1, 2 or possibly a handful of people to do the deed. But it seems I am very wrong. Nonetheless by the time one has 700+ employees, surely someone in charge would have noticed that the room was crowded. And why not the same at 500, or 200 or even 50 or fewer? Perhaps the lack of oxygen has something to do with it? Might I suggest opening a window or two?
    - quickthrower2 3y ago
      Ops, Scaling up, Site Reliability, Research, Marketing, Front end Web, Training (needs Humans, means needs organisation) Legal etc. There is a lot going on. R&D in other words the next AI breakthrough. Pretty lean if you compare it to Google and realize it is not far off being as good and would be the world’s best search if Google did’t exist. How many people do Google employ!
      - giardini 3y ago
        Unnecessary items: Scaling up - static website is enuf. Site Reliability - ditto. Front End Web - ditto. Necessary items: Ops - Gotta have someone who understands computers! Yes. Research - Here's the work. Yes. Training - No. Hire people carefully, fire quickly. Legal - minimal - hire a small law firm. So ~700 people mostly in Research and some cash for Legal? The scope of work must far exceed the scope of the task. Time to trim. Comparisons to Google makes no sense.
  - giardini 3y ago
    I just read "Ego, Fear and Money: How the A.I. Fuse Was Lit" https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/03/technology/ai-openai-musk-page-altman.html?unlocked_article_code=1.DE0.pUkn.sv7oZCK-dy7b&hpgrp=c-abar&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/03/technology/ai-openai-musk... In discussing OpenAI the article reveals why OpenAI is the size it is: OpenAI was created before LLMs were so popular, so OpenAI has a diverse employee pool of AI people. Many, if not most, were hired NOT for LLM or even NN knowledge but for knowledge of the more general field of AI. Were you an OpenAI exec who fervently believed LLMs would take you to true AI then there would be every reason to dump the non-LLM employees (likely a majority and a financial burden) and hire new staff who are more LLM-knowledgeable. At the same time, current OpenAI staff not familiar with LLMs are undoubtedly cramming!8-)) So that satisfies my question as to why OpenAI has so many people: only a fraction of the company produced the current hot products.

0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago

For those who are curious here's some background on the "cult like behavior" rumors https://nitter.net/JacquesThibs/status/1727134087176204410#m https://nitter.net/JacquesThibs/status/1727134087176204410#m "The early employees have the most $$$$ to lose and snort the company koolaid [...] They were calling people in the middle of the night" "The before ChatGPT [employees] are cultists and Sam Altman bootlickers" From anonymous posts on Blind, current/former OpenAI employee