6 ms·

Obviously it’s not the first credible foray into HSR in the US-that honor is Acelas. Edit: if you’re referring to Brightline West, construction hasn’t even sta

Obviously it’s not the first credible foray into HSR in the US-that honor is Acelas. Edit: if you’re referring to Brightline West, construction hasn’t even started.

paddy_m 3y ago
Acela isn't HSR, and Metroliner which came before had travel times from NYC to DC as low as 2.5 hours. Acela does the same trip in 3.5 hours. Metroliner lowered trip times primarily through faster acceleration.
- ZanyProgrammer 3y ago
  By any definition but yours Acela is indeed HSR, it’s the fucking fastest train in North America!
  - trbleclef 3y ago
    That doesn't mean it's fast
    - TylerE 3y ago
      It is though. On a trip earlier this year I clocked at it almost 150mph via GPS. That's HSR by any definition.
      - shiroiuma 3y ago
        Acela is indeed fast for a short stretch. But the average speed is terrible, so it's only "HSR" on a technicality. It could be serious HSR if they had control and/or ownership of the entire route and made it as good as that short section where they can hit that peak speed. Acela is like a Formula 1 car that gets to do one quick lap on a nice racetrack, then has to take another course through bumper-to-bumper traffic for the rest of the race.
        TylerE 3y ago
        You’re overstating it. The rest of the route is, except for a couple of areas around stations, a 125 limit, which is still basically double what Amtrak averages anywhere else.
    - JJMcJ 3y ago
      It's what the rest of the industrialized world calls "a train".
    - lmm 3y ago
      It's substantially faster than Brightline, so claiming it isn't HSR but Brightline somehow is is absurd.
- fragmede 3y ago
  Acela tops out at 150-160 mph (240 km/h-260 km/h) which is is above the 200 km/h bar for it to be considered HSR. Unfortunately, the route it runs on has several speed limits below even 100 km/h due to bridges and tunnels beyond the design life, so it's hard to call it HSR when it can't actually hit those advertised speeds.
- thatfrenchguy 3y ago
  Peak speed is how HSRs are defined, and Brightline is 200km/h, which is really mediocre for technology past the 80s, this is the speed at high most upgraded lines run in France.
- jcranmer 3y ago
  > Acela does the same trip in 3.5 hours. I just rode it last week, and it actually took 3 hours, not 3.5. Most of the NEC corridor from DC to NYC has a speed limit of 125mph; from NYC to New Haven, it's generally 70mph (!), from New Haven thence to about Kingston generally 90mph, and from there to Boston it's mostly 150mph. Given the density of the corridor, Amtrak should be trying for 150-220mph speed limits, but even 125mph is generally agreed upon to be the lowest end of HSR. A surprisingly easy way to make the train go faster would be to redesign the switching sections before large stations to allow trains to go faster through them. You can probably cut around 10 minutes out of the entire length with an investment of less than $100 million just by doing that.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    https://pedestrianobservations.com/2023/11/24/curves-in-fast-zones/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2023/11/24/curves-in-fast... is a good analysis for anyone who doesn't want to believe jcranmer or wants more detail. (what I linked is a second best approach, but it links to other low hanging fruit like switches)
    - jcranmer 3y ago
      And the first link in that post goes to https://pedestrianobservations.com/2019/02/08/fix-the-slowest-speed-zones/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2019/02/08/fix-the-slowes..., which more directly speaks about the impact of slow speeds in station throats.
    - paddy_m 3y ago
      I read that post, and I have been working slowly on a set of jupyter notebooks, with ipyleaflet (mapping) integration to make building train maps (with max speeds) easier. Looking for colaborators https://github.com/paddymul/train-calculator https://github.com/paddymul/train-calculator
  - kaliqt 3y ago
    Could cut it probably but this isn't a private company we are talking about here. The regulations and grifting would be massive, especially in New York which is quite like California with their wastefulness: half to the garbage can, half to their pockets, maybe a cent or two for the actual rails. So maybe it'd be a few billion at least. Not to say they shouldn't try. But I expect it'll be over budget and behind schedule, it would never happen like Brightline where they broke ground ASAP and just kept building until it was done.
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  Brightline isn't HSR either. According to Wikipedia, the max speed is only 200kph.
- woodruffw 3y ago
  Acela qualifies as HSR in the most basic sense: it has sections that run at 125mph. This is also the sense in which Brightliner in FL is HSR. (This doesn’t make the situation any less embarrassing.)

Obviously it’s not the first credible foray into HSR in the US-that honor is Acelas. Edit: if you’re referring to Brightline West, construction hasn’t even started.

paddy_m 3y ago

Acela isn't HSR, and Metroliner which came before had travel times from NYC to DC as low as 2.5 hours. Acela does the same trip in 3.5 hours. Metroliner lowered trip times primarily through faster acceleration.

ZanyProgrammer 3y ago
By any definition but yours Acela is indeed HSR, it’s the fucking fastest train in North America!
- trbleclef 3y ago
  That doesn't mean it's fast
  - TylerE 3y ago
    It is though. On a trip earlier this year I clocked at it almost 150mph via GPS. That's HSR by any definition.
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      Acela is indeed fast for a short stretch. But the average speed is terrible, so it's only "HSR" on a technicality. It could be serious HSR if they had control and/or ownership of the entire route and made it as good as that short section where they can hit that peak speed. Acela is like a Formula 1 car that gets to do one quick lap on a nice racetrack, then has to take another course through bumper-to-bumper traffic for the rest of the race.
      - TylerE 3y ago
        You’re overstating it. The rest of the route is, except for a couple of areas around stations, a 125 limit, which is still basically double what Amtrak averages anywhere else.
  - JJMcJ 3y ago
    It's what the rest of the industrialized world calls "a train".
  - lmm 3y ago
    It's substantially faster than Brightline, so claiming it isn't HSR but Brightline somehow is is absurd.
fragmede 3y ago
Acela tops out at 150-160 mph (240 km/h-260 km/h) which is is above the 200 km/h bar for it to be considered HSR. Unfortunately, the route it runs on has several speed limits below even 100 km/h due to bridges and tunnels beyond the design life, so it's hard to call it HSR when it can't actually hit those advertised speeds.
thatfrenchguy 3y ago
Peak speed is how HSRs are defined, and Brightline is 200km/h, which is really mediocre for technology past the 80s, this is the speed at high most upgraded lines run in France.
jcranmer 3y ago
> Acela does the same trip in 3.5 hours. I just rode it last week, and it actually took 3 hours, not 3.5. Most of the NEC corridor from DC to NYC has a speed limit of 125mph; from NYC to New Haven, it's generally 70mph (!), from New Haven thence to about Kingston generally 90mph, and from there to Boston it's mostly 150mph. Given the density of the corridor, Amtrak should be trying for 150-220mph speed limits, but even 125mph is generally agreed upon to be the lowest end of HSR. A surprisingly easy way to make the train go faster would be to redesign the switching sections before large stations to allow trains to go faster through them. You can probably cut around 10 minutes out of the entire length with an investment of less than $100 million just by doing that.
- bluGill 3y ago
  https://pedestrianobservations.com/2023/11/24/curves-in-fast-zones/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2023/11/24/curves-in-fast... is a good analysis for anyone who doesn't want to believe jcranmer or wants more detail. (what I linked is a second best approach, but it links to other low hanging fruit like switches)
  - jcranmer 3y ago
    And the first link in that post goes to https://pedestrianobservations.com/2019/02/08/fix-the-slowest-speed-zones/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2019/02/08/fix-the-slowes..., which more directly speaks about the impact of slow speeds in station throats.
  - paddy_m 3y ago
    I read that post, and I have been working slowly on a set of jupyter notebooks, with ipyleaflet (mapping) integration to make building train maps (with max speeds) easier. Looking for colaborators https://github.com/paddymul/train-calculator https://github.com/paddymul/train-calculator
- kaliqt 3y ago
  Could cut it probably but this isn't a private company we are talking about here. The regulations and grifting would be massive, especially in New York which is quite like California with their wastefulness: half to the garbage can, half to their pockets, maybe a cent or two for the actual rails. So maybe it'd be a few billion at least. Not to say they shouldn't try. But I expect it'll be over budget and behind schedule, it would never happen like Brightline where they broke ground ASAP and just kept building until it was done.
shiroiuma 3y ago
Brightline isn't HSR either. According to Wikipedia, the max speed is only 200kph.
woodruffw 3y ago
Acela qualifies as HSR in the most basic sense: it has sections that run at 125mph. This is also the sense in which Brightliner in FL is HSR. (This doesn’t make the situation any less embarrassing.)