6 ms·

MS and OpenAI certainly have non-solicitation clauses in their contracts. MS could afford the legal battle but isn't it better for them to wait it out and see w

MS and OpenAI certainly have non-solicitation clauses in their contracts. MS could afford the legal battle but isn't it better for them to wait it out and see what happens first?

agloe_dreams 3y ago
https://twitter.com/kevin_scott/status/1726971608706031670 https://twitter.com/kevin_scott/status/1726971608706031670 Uh..the CTO of MS saying he will match OAI pay and will support their mutiny uh...definitely is solicitation.
- gjsman-1000 3y ago
  The letter from OpenAI employees to the board expressly says: "We, the undersigned, may choose to resign from OpenAl and join the newly announced Microsoft subsidiary run by Sam Altman and Greg Brockman. Microsoft has assured us that there are positions for all OpenAl employees at this new subsidiary should we choose to join." I think it's safe to say there probably isn't any non-solicitation clause; or at least, it's a very weak one or specific one that Microsoft isn't violating (i.e. you won't reach out over LinkedIn).
clhodapp 3y ago
Non-solicitation agreements are like super-illegal in California. See the "wage fixing" case against Apple, Google, Adobe, Pixar, Intuit, and Intel.
- manquer 3y ago
  It is different between JV partners or between vendor and customer . If non solicit agreement were not legal for those , consulting companies either tech or management consulting will not be able to operate at all .
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    JV partners are entirely different form consulting arrangements though and these are some pretty exceptional circumstances.
  - clhodapp 3y ago
    Do you mean to say that if non-solicitation agreements were entirely unenforceable, consulting companies would see all of their best consultants poached by clients?
mjirv 3y ago
Unlikely. Non-poaching agreements are illegal under federal antitrust law.
- danielmarkbruce 3y ago
  Nonsense.
jacquesm 3y ago
I've yet to see a more clear example of solicitation and MS is very much out front with this, presumably their ability to protect their interest in OpenAI outweighs the risk that the competition (Google, etc) would snap up the employees. Think of it as a stop-gap move to ensure that people won't leave and it looks different already. If there is any legal risk (which I doubt) then it is more than offset by their most simple excuse to ignore it, besides the legalities involving non-poaching agreements to begin with.
blackoil 3y ago
Are non-solicitation clauses legal?? one between AAPL and GOOG were illegal.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  They usually are not.
  - phpnode 3y ago
    I'm quite surprised by this, if only because of the regularity with which they appear in standard software consulting agreements.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      That depends very much on the locality. What's legal in one country will get you in serious trouble in many others. hi there!
      - phpnode 3y ago
        The clauses are common in the UK but I see them all the time from startups incorporated in Delaware. Maybe they're there for the deterrent factor. Also, hi!
        jacquesm 3y ago
        Yes, they get put in but if you try to enforce them you'll find that you can't. We sign contracts with non-poaching elements in them all the time because the companies we look at are afraid that we will use our inside knowledge to go after their best talent. But I suspect that just the basic protections an employee has under employment law would be enough to stop a company from trying to enforce this (we have a term for this in Dutch which is called 'broodroof' but I don't know any good English translation). That said: for Execs and consultants it is a different matter. But they are not rank-and-file employees.

MS and OpenAI certainly have non-solicitation clauses in their contracts. MS could afford the legal battle but isn't it better for them to wait it out and see what happens first?

agloe_dreams 3y ago

https://twitter.com/kevin_scott/status/1726971608706031670 https://twitter.com/kevin_scott/status/1726971608706031670 Uh..the CTO of MS saying he will match OAI pay and will support their mutiny uh...definitely is solicitation.

gjsman-1000 3y ago
The letter from OpenAI employees to the board expressly says: "We, the undersigned, may choose to resign from OpenAl and join the newly announced Microsoft subsidiary run by Sam Altman and Greg Brockman. Microsoft has assured us that there are positions for all OpenAl employees at this new subsidiary should we choose to join." I think it's safe to say there probably isn't any non-solicitation clause; or at least, it's a very weak one or specific one that Microsoft isn't violating (i.e. you won't reach out over LinkedIn).

clhodapp 3y ago

Non-solicitation agreements are like super-illegal in California. See the "wage fixing" case against Apple, Google, Adobe, Pixar, Intuit, and Intel.

manquer 3y ago
It is different between JV partners or between vendor and customer . If non solicit agreement were not legal for those , consulting companies either tech or management consulting will not be able to operate at all .
- jacquesm 3y ago
  JV partners are entirely different form consulting arrangements though and these are some pretty exceptional circumstances.
- clhodapp 3y ago
  Do you mean to say that if non-solicitation agreements were entirely unenforceable, consulting companies would see all of their best consultants poached by clients?

mjirv 3y ago

Unlikely. Non-poaching agreements are illegal under federal antitrust law.

danielmarkbruce 3y ago
Nonsense.

jacquesm 3y ago

I've yet to see a more clear example of solicitation and MS is very much out front with this, presumably their ability to protect their interest in OpenAI outweighs the risk that the competition (Google, etc) would snap up the employees. Think of it as a stop-gap move to ensure that people won't leave and it looks different already. If there is any legal risk (which I doubt) then it is more than offset by their most simple excuse to ignore it, besides the legalities involving non-poaching agreements to begin with.

blackoil 3y ago

Are non-solicitation clauses legal?? one between AAPL and GOOG were illegal.

jacquesm 3y ago
They usually are not.
- phpnode 3y ago
  I'm quite surprised by this, if only because of the regularity with which they appear in standard software consulting agreements.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    That depends very much on the locality. What's legal in one country will get you in serious trouble in many others. hi there!
    - phpnode 3y ago
      The clauses are common in the UK but I see them all the time from startups incorporated in Delaware. Maybe they're there for the deterrent factor. Also, hi!
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        Yes, they get put in but if you try to enforce them you'll find that you can't. We sign contracts with non-poaching elements in them all the time because the companies we look at are afraid that we will use our inside knowledge to go after their best talent. But I suspect that just the basic protections an employee has under employment law would be enough to stop a company from trying to enforce this (we have a term for this in Dutch which is called 'broodroof' but I don't know any good English translation). That said: for Execs and consultants it is a different matter. But they are not rank-and-file employees.