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> it will be just in maintenance alone Can confirm; >5 years on a Model 3 and other than tires $0 in maintenance so far. >3 years on a Model Y and other than t

> it will be just in maintenance alone Can confirm; >5 years on a Model 3 and other than tires $0 in maintenance so far. >3 years on a Model Y and other than tires, $0 in maintenance so far. Absolute huge cost and time savings compared to my ICE vehicles, even when I perform my own maintenance on them.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Tesla will also come to my house (or any other address I specify within their service coverage area) with a mobile ranger to do the service I don't want to do myself (brake fluid exchange every 2 years). I wish other automakers would offer this. Not EV specific, but a material improvement in user experience imho. Major work will still require a shop visit (dropping the HV battery pack, motor replacement, other major mechanicals). (I am aware of YourMechanic and other similar services, but having the unified experience with a brand is nice and fancy, I can order it in the Tesla app and the maintenance records can easily transfer to the next VIN owner)
- droopyEyelids 3y ago
  Its an improvement to you but a lost sales opportunity for the dealer. Im surprised this isnt mentioned more, but dealers make a ton of money pressuring people who come in for maintenance to get a bunch of other stuff. According to NADA in 202 49% of dealership profits came from the service and parts department, 36% from new vehicle sales, and 14% from used sales. Service and parts averages 60-70% profit on the transactions.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Great call out. They sell cars to capture future service revenue. This is why you can't sell EVs effectively with a dealership model. The product threatens their survival.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      Printer manufactures sell printers to capture future ink sales revenue. This isn't unique here.
  - sunflowerfly 3y ago
    While probably true, I would love to see the traditional car dealership business model go away. The only reason anymore to have a dealer is a place to test drive, and you do not need a huge lot full of cars for that.
    - kccqzy 3y ago
      Traditional brands sell many more SKUs than Tesla. It is likely they will need a large lot just to have all the variations in SKUs available for test drive. Tesla isn't particularly good at their so-called "demo drive" actually. Last time I tried to test drive both AWD and RWD variations of the same model but they couldn't do that. Needless to say I didn't buy a Tesla.
CyanLite2 3y ago
The time savings alone is the yuge factor IMO. People talk about "oh I don't want to spend 15 minutes charging at a supercharger on road trips". Yeah, I'd rather do that once in a blue moon rather than the weekly drive out of my way to spend 5-10 minutes at a gas station with semi-sketchy people loitering the area. Or deal with the ever-changing gas prices that go up every time a dictator in the middle-east sneezes.
- hinkley 3y ago
  People who try to drive six, eight hours without a break put themselves at danger, but also everyone around them. I suspect insurance companies see the forced 20 minute break every five hours as a feature not a bug.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Can you not accept that other people have different needs than you? Some people do 350+ mile one way trips regularly, not "once in a blue moon" and EVs are just less convenent for them. I have trips like that at least monthly, sometimes weekly. I can do that on a single tank of fuel and not have to worry about finding a charger along the way or when I arrive or if my hotel will even have working chargers (I'm sure some hotels offer this but I personally have never seen it and I stay at moderately decent hotel like Hampton Inn).
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    Yeah but if charging stations become as ubiquitous as gas stations, this becomes a lot less of an issue. And quite frankly my 10-gallon tank has like a 400 mile range, and newer electric cars have like a 300 mile range, so the gap is getting pretty narrow.
  - calvinmorrison 3y ago
    95% of people commenting on this thread live within a short drive of the Amtrak North East corridor and absolutely should convert to an EV as fast as possible. For people who dont live in the NY megolopolis... the factors are different.
hinkley 3y ago
I think we should stop factoring our tires. EVs chew through tires because they’re heavy as hell. If we play at being objective and get caught leaving bits out, people shut down and label you a liar. I presume brakes and tires partially cancel out, depending on car model. Some vehicles do engine braking automatically (mine does).
- galcerte 3y ago
  SUVs are being sold like candy, and they are heavier than your regular sedan. This is especially so in the US, where it's not just SUVs but also trucks, and they are both bigger and heavier than in Europe. Being heavy is not exclusive to EVs.
- kwhitefoot 3y ago
  > EVs chew through tires because they’re heavy as hell. Nonsense most EVs are very similar in weight to their ICE counterparts. My Model S weighs about 2 100 kg, a comparable sized ICE car such as an S-class Mercedes weighs slightly less to slightly more depending on which options you specify.
  - slaw 3y ago
    Why do you compare Tesla Model S to a luxury car? Model S is not comfortable, it is noisy, has low quality interior. Is it because it is expensive? Any Ferrari is more expensive and it is not a luxury car. Tesla Model S has smaller interior than Camry. Tesla Model S - 4,561 lb. Toyota Camry - 3,340 lb. https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=401921012&veh2=401946126 https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=401921012&veh2...
  - hinkley 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - alvah 3y ago
    Oh come on. EVs have many advantages, but "most EVs are very similar in weight to their ICE counterparts" is straight-up untrue. Model S Long Range: 510lb heavier than a BMW 540i XDrive Model 3 Performance 379lb heavier than a BMW 330i XDrive Rivian R1S weighs over 7200lb. University of Leeds study (UK): electric cars are 312 kilograms (688 pounds) heavier on average than comparable vehicles powered by gasoline engines.
jjtheblunt 3y ago
Similar for 2014-2022 BMW i3 over 80k miles : about $200 maintenance total, other than tires. Cost to go a mile varied between 1/5 and 1/10 of ICE, but had limited range (which worked for me).
- speedgoose 3y ago
  I had to change the brake disks on my 2014 i3 because they rusted too much as I didn’t use them enough. Remember to brake once in a while if you live in an area with salty roads.
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    that sounds about right, but i was in unsalted territory!
agumonkey 3y ago
Car maintenance is such a huge burden. I don't want see car mechanics out of job, but sincerely the amount of money wasted in parts is astonishing (included the high labour cost due to massive amount of parts and differences in configurations to deal with). Once the average person knows the maintenance cost is that low it will probably provide yet another inflection in EV curve adoption.
- tomcam 3y ago
  And you’re being charitable here, because you are omitting the all-too-frequent case of work being done when it’s not necessary. That’s what bugs the hell out of me.
  - agumonkey 3y ago
    Yes indeed, this industry is filled with obscure improper and/or fake work because we rely on cars too much and are hostages. Makes me think a tiny city open source hardware EV, with a pedagogical ecosystem, would be cool
    - tomcam 3y ago
      So I love that, but here in the USA we have super tight safety standards. Any ideas on how to handle that?
WD40forRust34 3y ago
>$0, so far >$0, so far Come now, amortize what the eventual service costs will be...
- aaomidi 3y ago
  > Come now, amortize what the eventual service costs will be... I've been driving one since 2018, 80K miles. I've had to change tires probably 30-40% faster than ICE cars of a similar caliber (FWIW I also have become more careful on tires too). I've had exactly a cost of $1200 on it so far (not counting tires). I think that's actually pretty decent. I think people also switch cars every 5-6 years too?
  - lm28469 3y ago
    > I think people also switch cars every 5-6 years too? Maybe, but the average car is much older than 5-6 years https://bcarparts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/INFO-AVERAGEYEARS_Mesa-de-trabajo-1.jpg https://bcarparts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/INFO-AVERAG... I wouldn't mind buying a 15+ years old ice. Buying a 15+ years old electric car seems like a complete gamble so far
m463 3y ago
Well, no oil changes, but I suspect long-term there may be big things like on ICE cars. 12v battery, air conditioner, coolant changes (fewer), motor issues, big battery. There are a lot of electronics. Crashes might be fewer, but it seems the cars are expensive to fix. Hopefully there will be parts long-term, and repair infrastructure.
- moduspol 3y ago
  I did have to have the 12v battery replaced on my 2018 Model 3, but I think they've now transitioned to Lithium-ion 12v batteries on the newer cars, so I'm not sure if that'll be an expected maintenance item much longer.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Tesla will also come to my house (or any other address I specify within their service coverage area) with a mobile ranger to do the service I don't want to do myself (brake fluid exchange every 2 years). I wish other automakers would offer this. Not EV specific, but a material improvement in user experience imho. Major work will still require a shop visit (dropping the HV battery pack, motor replacement, other major mechanicals). (I am aware of YourMechanic and other similar services, but having the unified experience with a brand is nice and fancy, I can order it in the Tesla app and the maintenance records can easily transfer to the next VIN owner)

droopyEyelids 3y ago
Its an improvement to you but a lost sales opportunity for the dealer. Im surprised this isnt mentioned more, but dealers make a ton of money pressuring people who come in for maintenance to get a bunch of other stuff. According to NADA in 202 49% of dealership profits came from the service and parts department, 36% from new vehicle sales, and 14% from used sales. Service and parts averages 60-70% profit on the transactions.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Great call out. They sell cars to capture future service revenue. This is why you can't sell EVs effectively with a dealership model. The product threatens their survival.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    Printer manufactures sell printers to capture future ink sales revenue. This isn't unique here.
- sunflowerfly 3y ago
  While probably true, I would love to see the traditional car dealership business model go away. The only reason anymore to have a dealer is a place to test drive, and you do not need a huge lot full of cars for that.
  - kccqzy 3y ago
    Traditional brands sell many more SKUs than Tesla. It is likely they will need a large lot just to have all the variations in SKUs available for test drive. Tesla isn't particularly good at their so-called "demo drive" actually. Last time I tried to test drive both AWD and RWD variations of the same model but they couldn't do that. Needless to say I didn't buy a Tesla.

CyanLite2 3y ago

The time savings alone is the yuge factor IMO. People talk about "oh I don't want to spend 15 minutes charging at a supercharger on road trips". Yeah, I'd rather do that once in a blue moon rather than the weekly drive out of my way to spend 5-10 minutes at a gas station with semi-sketchy people loitering the area. Or deal with the ever-changing gas prices that go up every time a dictator in the middle-east sneezes.

hinkley 3y ago
People who try to drive six, eight hours without a break put themselves at danger, but also everyone around them. I suspect insurance companies see the forced 20 minute break every five hours as a feature not a bug.
SoftTalker 3y ago
Can you not accept that other people have different needs than you? Some people do 350+ mile one way trips regularly, not "once in a blue moon" and EVs are just less convenent for them. I have trips like that at least monthly, sometimes weekly. I can do that on a single tank of fuel and not have to worry about finding a charger along the way or when I arrive or if my hotel will even have working chargers (I'm sure some hotels offer this but I personally have never seen it and I stay at moderately decent hotel like Hampton Inn).
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  Yeah but if charging stations become as ubiquitous as gas stations, this becomes a lot less of an issue. And quite frankly my 10-gallon tank has like a 400 mile range, and newer electric cars have like a 300 mile range, so the gap is getting pretty narrow.
- calvinmorrison 3y ago
  95% of people commenting on this thread live within a short drive of the Amtrak North East corridor and absolutely should convert to an EV as fast as possible. For people who dont live in the NY megolopolis... the factors are different.

hinkley 3y ago

I think we should stop factoring our tires. EVs chew through tires because they’re heavy as hell. If we play at being objective and get caught leaving bits out, people shut down and label you a liar. I presume brakes and tires partially cancel out, depending on car model. Some vehicles do engine braking automatically (mine does).

galcerte 3y ago
SUVs are being sold like candy, and they are heavier than your regular sedan. This is especially so in the US, where it's not just SUVs but also trucks, and they are both bigger and heavier than in Europe. Being heavy is not exclusive to EVs.
kwhitefoot 3y ago
> EVs chew through tires because they’re heavy as hell. Nonsense most EVs are very similar in weight to their ICE counterparts. My Model S weighs about 2 100 kg, a comparable sized ICE car such as an S-class Mercedes weighs slightly less to slightly more depending on which options you specify.
- slaw 3y ago
  Why do you compare Tesla Model S to a luxury car? Model S is not comfortable, it is noisy, has low quality interior. Is it because it is expensive? Any Ferrari is more expensive and it is not a luxury car. Tesla Model S has smaller interior than Camry. Tesla Model S - 4,561 lb. Toyota Camry - 3,340 lb. https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=401921012&veh2=401946126 https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=401921012&veh2...
- hinkley 3y ago
  [flagged]
- alvah 3y ago
  Oh come on. EVs have many advantages, but "most EVs are very similar in weight to their ICE counterparts" is straight-up untrue. Model S Long Range: 510lb heavier than a BMW 540i XDrive Model 3 Performance 379lb heavier than a BMW 330i XDrive Rivian R1S weighs over 7200lb. University of Leeds study (UK): electric cars are 312 kilograms (688 pounds) heavier on average than comparable vehicles powered by gasoline engines.

jjtheblunt 3y ago

Similar for 2014-2022 BMW i3 over 80k miles : about $200 maintenance total, other than tires. Cost to go a mile varied between 1/5 and 1/10 of ICE, but had limited range (which worked for me).

speedgoose 3y ago
I had to change the brake disks on my 2014 i3 because they rusted too much as I didn’t use them enough. Remember to brake once in a while if you live in an area with salty roads.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  that sounds about right, but i was in unsalted territory!

agumonkey 3y ago

Car maintenance is such a huge burden. I don't want see car mechanics out of job, but sincerely the amount of money wasted in parts is astonishing (included the high labour cost due to massive amount of parts and differences in configurations to deal with). Once the average person knows the maintenance cost is that low it will probably provide yet another inflection in EV curve adoption.

tomcam 3y ago
And you’re being charitable here, because you are omitting the all-too-frequent case of work being done when it’s not necessary. That’s what bugs the hell out of me.
- agumonkey 3y ago
  Yes indeed, this industry is filled with obscure improper and/or fake work because we rely on cars too much and are hostages. Makes me think a tiny city open source hardware EV, with a pedagogical ecosystem, would be cool
  - tomcam 3y ago
    So I love that, but here in the USA we have super tight safety standards. Any ideas on how to handle that?

WD40forRust34 3y ago

>$0, so far >$0, so far Come now, amortize what the eventual service costs will be...

aaomidi 3y ago
> Come now, amortize what the eventual service costs will be... I've been driving one since 2018, 80K miles. I've had to change tires probably 30-40% faster than ICE cars of a similar caliber (FWIW I also have become more careful on tires too). I've had exactly a cost of $1200 on it so far (not counting tires). I think that's actually pretty decent. I think people also switch cars every 5-6 years too?
- lm28469 3y ago
  > I think people also switch cars every 5-6 years too? Maybe, but the average car is much older than 5-6 years https://bcarparts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/INFO-AVERAGEYEARS_Mesa-de-trabajo-1.jpg https://bcarparts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/INFO-AVERAG... I wouldn't mind buying a 15+ years old ice. Buying a 15+ years old electric car seems like a complete gamble so far

m463 3y ago

Well, no oil changes, but I suspect long-term there may be big things like on ICE cars. 12v battery, air conditioner, coolant changes (fewer), motor issues, big battery. There are a lot of electronics. Crashes might be fewer, but it seems the cars are expensive to fix. Hopefully there will be parts long-term, and repair infrastructure.

moduspol 3y ago
I did have to have the 12v battery replaced on my 2018 Model 3, but I think they've now transitioned to Lithium-ion 12v batteries on the newer cars, so I'm not sure if that'll be an expected maintenance item much longer.