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German Pirate Party overtakes Greens on latest poll

152 points by mariorz 14y ago

sasvari 14y ago
just for remembrance (don't read the title misleadingly): this ist just a poll! edit: some more information: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,826540,00.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,826540,00...
ch0wn 14y ago
Politics in Germany are really interesting these days. Even if the Pirate Party should fail in the end, the discussion it brought up is already very beneficial.
- tomp 14y ago
  I don't see the Pirate Party failing anytime soon. In fact, I'm quite surprised they're as successful already, but I cannot imagine a future where their popularity isn't raising. They are the embodiment of the younger generation (e.g. under 25, maybe under 30) that are just becoming voters and have no real say in the politics yet. They (actually We) are used to having broadband internet, smart mobile phones, etc., i.e. ubiquitous computing and free internet access. Right now, we're getting attacked head-on by the old established empires (media in particular), but the only reason that they can lobby some laws into passing is that they bribe old politicians who have no understanding and attachment to the internet, and really don't care what happens in the world after 20 years, because they will mostly be gone by then. However, the younger generations do care, and they will not accept it (barring some radical change in the social structure). When we come into power, the media empire will lose. The Pirate Parties are the only political organization that are catering to this voters need (so far - I'm assuming other parties will adapt... most politicians are not loyal to principles, but only to power).
  - pilot_pirx 14y ago
    I can imagine such a future very easily. For one thing the other parties will take over some of their positions (especially the Green and the Liberal). Then there is the Pirate Parties lack of positions in many other areas of everyday politics which makes them rather uninteresting for many voters. And they still have internal quarrels which will become stronger if they gain power and may eventually break the party (hopefully not). There is a slight hype about them at the moment, but this will cool down. And then there will be a time, when the main struggles about internet freedom cools down and there are agreements and laws made (this will somehow never end finally, but it won't matter that much anymore). That's a similar situation as the Green party had to face many years ago, when they had managed to establish laws to protect the environment. On the long run I see them around 8 to 10 percent, depending on region (more in cities) and which positions they take in areas like education, finances, taxes... At least if they can stabilize their internal structure and avoid the problems I mentioned. But this will be enough to make them interesting as a partner in coalitions, especially together with the Green Party and that way forcing the established parties to rethink their own positions.
    - cabalamat 14y ago
      > And then there will be a time, when the main struggles about internet freedom cools down This will omnly happen when governments and businesses stop trying to take away our freedom, i.e. not soon. > That's a similar situation as the Green party had to face many years ago, when they had managed to establish laws to protect the environment. Well, the Green Party still exists, and is doing rather well in Germany.
      - pilot_pirx 14y ago
        1) I guess you are right, but at least here in Europe we can expect that matters get settled at some point in time. We do not have this law culture where a new law can be proposed over and over again in different forms. (Though there are tricks around that and who know...) 2) Yes, because they managed to move from a single focus to become a party with an established program and well known politicians. But they have very similar voters and so that new party is partially splitting forces. The Green Party will maybe react by adjusting their program in Pirate direction. But of course a lot of things can happen and we will see. At least this Pirate success will show certain interest groups to be careful about their actions. A party that can jump above 10% out of nothing just about a single item of interest was something not expected by them. They will have to recon with that force.
  - brazzy 14y ago
    I cannot imagine a future where their popularity isn't raising. Then your imagination is sorely lacking. I can guarantee that their popularity will severely decline within the next 5 years, because right now they are attracting a lot of "protest voters" who have little interest in their actual programme and simply vote for them because they attack the established parties in some way. This kind of thing always cools off after a while (just look at Die Linke). Whether the Pirate Party can survive at depends on how they deal with that when (not if) it happens. I'm pretty sure they will, since their core points of informational freedom and transparency are still getting more relvant.
    - tjoff 14y ago
      This is exactly what happened to the Pirate party in Sweden. They had an absolutely ridiculous amount of (free) media coverage during the Pirate Bay trial, the FRA-law (that gave the government the ability to snoop on internet traffic crossing the border) and ACTA (a law written by the media industry to help and prioritize illegal file sharing) but, they have never breached the 4% barrier required to get in parliament in Sweden. While the outrage during the FRA-law was quite impressive (more impressive on the internet than on the streets unfortunately) both ACTA and the FRA-law passed, and today I don't know if I've heard anything about the Pirate party in Sweden for the last year (I hear much more from the Pirate party in Germany - a few years ago I believe the exact opposite was true (that the Pirate party in Sweden was by far the most successful in Europe)). I hope I'm wrong but I don't see how the Pirate party will ever get into parliament in Sweden and the only thing I can hope for is that the German, and other, Pirate parties will be successful and that that result in changes within the EU as well as reignite the spark in Sweden. But I barely even dare to hope on anything.
  - bnr 14y ago
    I don't think the way the Pirate Party works internally right now, i.e. very broad discussions trying to take every member's opinion into account, will scale to the size and speed needed if they join a ruling coalition. Their Liquid Democracy voting and delegation tool seems very promising for that use case, though.
- woodpanel 14y ago
  High Pirate Party Numbers = 4 more years for Angela Merkel I welcome the German pirates for several reasons: - "the discussion it brought up is already very beneficial." - they have a high turn out of former non-voters - "harmless stupidity": The German pirates seem to be ambivalent as of now. For instance, they are the only left-wing party that's not in favor of female employee quotas (an idea so absurd, there's not even an english wikipedia entry http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frauenquote http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frauenquote). If they dig deeper into this populist lefty anti-authoritarian theme (as it seems to be the case) the first thing they will achieve is less votes for the other left-wing parties. And personally, I think this would be a good thing (see "female employee quotas").
  - philippK 14y ago
    I think it's pretty unlikely that they fully get into all that "gender politics" stuff like the greens. That has several reasons - mainly the see themselves as more "liberal" (it has a different meaning here than in the us) than greens, and also they are not as female-dominated in their ranks as greens are. I think it's unlikely that they'll embrace a full blown "Frauenquote" (funny how there isn't an english wikipedia entry for it ^^), because the discussion inside the party (i am not a member) seems to be going in a direction they call "post gender". I think this post gender idead, by and large, is a good one. I hope they'll pursue this path more, bringing an approach of true equality to politics instead of the "gender fights" other left-leaning parties like to put on the political stage.
  - rmc 14y ago
    female employee quotas an idea so absurd, there's not even an english wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_government#Quotas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_government#Quotas
  - cabalamat 14y ago
    > High Pirate Party Numbers = 4 more years for Angela Merkel How does that follow?
    - brazzy 14y ago
Falkvinge 14y ago
I wonder why the photo says "Nerz Attends". His name is Sebastian Nerz. My guess is that somebody chose the first two words from a random sentence (i.e. "Nerz attends the general assembly") and tagged the photo with that as a name.
brico 14y ago
This has nothing to do with their politics, it is simply the fact that they offer an alternative, people will vote for them because they don't feel represented by the other parties. They are new, they are cool, they have an "anti-authoritarian" vibe, they will achieve nothing and be forgotten in a couple of years. The funny thing is, the "Greens" are considered old, they have achieved nothing (there's still a massive oil dependency, there are still nuclear reactors, ...) and now they panic :) Edit: the Pirates can gain traction by promising people "if we only had the power, we could do this or that" and they can increase their popularity by simply critisizing the current parties in power ("we would have it done some other way, we would have [insert popular opinion]") but in the end they will change nothing, just read up on the history of the Greens and just replace the name with Pirates
- Falkvinge 14y ago
  just like the previous international waves like the green movement and that silly workers' party
  - ZeroGravitas 14y ago
    More on this topic here: "We're the New Green Movement," Says Pirate Party Founder http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elisabeth-braw/pirate-party_b_1293277.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elisabeth-braw/pirate-party_b_... edit: just realized I'm replying to the person interviewed in my link!
- brazzy 14y ago
  Claiming that the Greens achieved nothing is rather ridiculous. They achieved a lot of things (most importantly that protecting the environment has become an issue none of the other parties can simply ignore). That they did not achieve everything they wanted at some point is the nature of democracy (and reality). It's true that the Pirate Party is right now getting attention and votes through hype and protest voters, and that they choose their stances based on ideals rather than realism. They'll have all kinds of problems when these things change (as they will have to). But the Greens are a perfect example for a new party that pulled through all this and became firmly established because their core issue is important enough.
Falkvinge 14y ago
Also worth noting: the Austrian pirate party entered the polls at 7% with a sonic boom on April 7.
philippK 14y ago
I'm from germany, and have voted for the pirate party in recent local elections. I'd like to add a few things: 1. The german system of government is very much different from the US. In the US you have by-and-large a "winner takes it all" voting system. In germany, by contrast, we have a system of proportional representation. That means, winning 10% of the popular vote nets you 10% of the seats that are on the line in your voting district. That's why we currently have 6 parties in our federal parliament ("Bundestag") - where you have only 2 parties in congress. 2. Although this is "just" a poll it isn't meaningless. The pirate party has been steadily building up momentum in the last 2 years. They now are the 5th largest party by member count in germany. They have also scored surprisingly high wins in two recent regional elections, and are set to repeat those gains in the two upcoming elections. 3. The pirate party runs on a platform of systemic reform. They want copyright reformed to be more compatible with the 21st century. They want a reformed educational sector with more use of modern technology in the classroom, as well as improved structures (i.e. more freedom to pursue different educational models). They also want to reform the political system at large, by having more citizen participation in political decisions. They want more public votes on specific issues, as well as more transparency (For example: ACTA was negotiated in secret and only announced to the german public once the details were finished. They pirates strongly oppose such intransparency.) This helped them to capture the votes of young, highly educated people. Many, but by no means all, from the "informatics" sector. They have also mobilized many first time voters, and re-energized many people who had formerly abandoned voting. 4. What's currently also helping them is the bad state of our government (the governing coalition is in disarray), their inability to answer to the challenges shaping our future, their corruption (our head of state recently had to resign in shame), their detachedness from concerns of everyday people. This greatly helps them to get the vote of people who are disaffected with the "established" parties and who are ready to give those "political youngsters" a chance. It's by no means guaranteed, but they seem to be on the way of becoming a serious political force in germany.
- philippK 14y ago
  Update: You'll find the exact polling data here: http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/forsa.htm http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/forsa.htm (FORSA institute, showing the most recent poll where they are ahead of the greens) http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm (overall overview from different pollsters)
yaix 14y ago
I really wish I was in Europe now to participate more in this. If you ever wanted to get info politics (even only a little bit), now is the perfect time. Next elections into the Bundestag and four years later into the gov't. And in ten years the European commissioner for IT things will be a Pirate, harrr harrr!
- maebert 14y ago
  When following politics I sometimes secretly wish I didn't move from Germany to Spain, where the political scenery is a tad more... predictable. That being said, I see absolutely no reason why the Pirates should be part of the government. Germany has had almost 20 years of policy blocking and mindlessly bullying oppositions (from both sides of the political spectrum), but maybe this can actually change with the Pirates - an opposition that has no problem in granting the governing parties their successes.
  - yaix 14y ago
    Or the junior partner of a gov't coalition that actually gets things done. How's Spain more predictable? I am sure they could use some Pirates too.
    - maebert 14y ago
      They could (well, there is an Pirate party, and it may even get above the magic 0.01% threshold...), but the major political players don't change much, and definitely not as rapidly as in Germany.
jpdus 14y ago
Quite interesting is also their approach to finding positions via voting on an open online platform (which is open sourced by the way: http://www.public-software-group.org/liquid_feedback http://www.public-software-group.org/liquid_feedback ) where each member can vote itself and also delegate its vote for different topics to other members.
- mtrimpe 14y ago
  I didn't know that. I was dreaming of a party that voted like this based on the input of all it's constituents since ten years or so. Maybe I should move to Berlin after all!
- philippK 14y ago
  You can even participate if you are not a party member. And that's what their long term vision also includes: Large scale, direct, participation (using digital means) of many people in the political process. They call this concept "Liquid democracy" See here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delegative_Democracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delegative_Democracy http://liqd.net/en/ http://liqd.net/en/
viandante 14y ago
This is good news. But I am not sure yet if I would vote for them (usually I do not vote). Their economic policy seems not mature enough or too much towards an even more socialist State. This is what is now failing us in most of the western Europe. I would really like to see some groups against copyright/patent madness AND against public spending/over taxation madness we have been struggling with for the last decades. Unfortunately, it seems that in Europe those ideas tend to polarize between 2 'very' different groups such as left (and not even all) for the copyright thing and right (and not even all) for the taxes thing. And that's why I do not vote.
- philippK 14y ago
  well i have bad news for you. the only party in germany that is really pro free market capitalism, the FDP, is on its way to obscurity due to severe policy missteps. All the other parties embrace, as we call it here, "social capitalism" to varying degrees. So, in germany, you mainly have the choice between several "left leaning" parties. When measured by US standards, most our parties are "socialist".
  - viandante 14y ago
    As much as definitions are concerned, also US has only socialist parties. The first problem begins when your parties only discuss about further spending and never about expense reductions (as in US too). The other problem begins when the State thinks it has the right to decide on things that should be left to the individual, for example, it makes absolutely no sense that in Germany shops are mandated to be closed on Saturdays (less of this in Us?). Finally, as there is no pure socialism/capitalism, I believe we should look at few simple things. For example, effective taxation (together with mandatory helthcare and pension) on the individual should not be 50% of his income (and it is in Italy, for example); public spending should not be 50% of GDP either. Let's start from here...
    - Tichy 14y ago
      It seems to be by US standards every state that collects taxes is socialist. After all, that means the government decides what to spend part of your money on. Why is it more socialist to spend the money on healthcare than on a new motorway?

152 points by mariorz 14y ago

just for remembrance (don't read the title misleadingly): this ist just a poll! edit: some more information: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,826540,00.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,826540,00...

ch0wn 14y ago

Politics in Germany are really interesting these days. Even if the Pirate Party should fail in the end, the discussion it brought up is already very beneficial.

tomp 14y ago
I don't see the Pirate Party failing anytime soon. In fact, I'm quite surprised they're as successful already, but I cannot imagine a future where their popularity isn't raising. They are the embodiment of the younger generation (e.g. under 25, maybe under 30) that are just becoming voters and have no real say in the politics yet. They (actually We) are used to having broadband internet, smart mobile phones, etc., i.e. ubiquitous computing and free internet access. Right now, we're getting attacked head-on by the old established empires (media in particular), but the only reason that they can lobby some laws into passing is that they bribe old politicians who have no understanding and attachment to the internet, and really don't care what happens in the world after 20 years, because they will mostly be gone by then. However, the younger generations do care, and they will not accept it (barring some radical change in the social structure). When we come into power, the media empire will lose. The Pirate Parties are the only political organization that are catering to this voters need (so far - I'm assuming other parties will adapt... most politicians are not loyal to principles, but only to power).
- pilot_pirx 14y ago
  I can imagine such a future very easily. For one thing the other parties will take over some of their positions (especially the Green and the Liberal). Then there is the Pirate Parties lack of positions in many other areas of everyday politics which makes them rather uninteresting for many voters. And they still have internal quarrels which will become stronger if they gain power and may eventually break the party (hopefully not). There is a slight hype about them at the moment, but this will cool down. And then there will be a time, when the main struggles about internet freedom cools down and there are agreements and laws made (this will somehow never end finally, but it won't matter that much anymore). That's a similar situation as the Green party had to face many years ago, when they had managed to establish laws to protect the environment. On the long run I see them around 8 to 10 percent, depending on region (more in cities) and which positions they take in areas like education, finances, taxes... At least if they can stabilize their internal structure and avoid the problems I mentioned. But this will be enough to make them interesting as a partner in coalitions, especially together with the Green Party and that way forcing the established parties to rethink their own positions.
  - cabalamat 14y ago
    > And then there will be a time, when the main struggles about internet freedom cools down This will omnly happen when governments and businesses stop trying to take away our freedom, i.e. not soon. > That's a similar situation as the Green party had to face many years ago, when they had managed to establish laws to protect the environment. Well, the Green Party still exists, and is doing rather well in Germany.
    - pilot_pirx 14y ago
      1) I guess you are right, but at least here in Europe we can expect that matters get settled at some point in time. We do not have this law culture where a new law can be proposed over and over again in different forms. (Though there are tricks around that and who know...) 2) Yes, because they managed to move from a single focus to become a party with an established program and well known politicians. But they have very similar voters and so that new party is partially splitting forces. The Green Party will maybe react by adjusting their program in Pirate direction. But of course a lot of things can happen and we will see. At least this Pirate success will show certain interest groups to be careful about their actions. A party that can jump above 10% out of nothing just about a single item of interest was something not expected by them. They will have to recon with that force.
- brazzy 14y ago
  I cannot imagine a future where their popularity isn't raising. Then your imagination is sorely lacking. I can guarantee that their popularity will severely decline within the next 5 years, because right now they are attracting a lot of "protest voters" who have little interest in their actual programme and simply vote for them because they attack the established parties in some way. This kind of thing always cools off after a while (just look at Die Linke). Whether the Pirate Party can survive at depends on how they deal with that when (not if) it happens. I'm pretty sure they will, since their core points of informational freedom and transparency are still getting more relvant.
  - tjoff 14y ago
    This is exactly what happened to the Pirate party in Sweden. They had an absolutely ridiculous amount of (free) media coverage during the Pirate Bay trial, the FRA-law (that gave the government the ability to snoop on internet traffic crossing the border) and ACTA (a law written by the media industry to help and prioritize illegal file sharing) but, they have never breached the 4% barrier required to get in parliament in Sweden. While the outrage during the FRA-law was quite impressive (more impressive on the internet than on the streets unfortunately) both ACTA and the FRA-law passed, and today I don't know if I've heard anything about the Pirate party in Sweden for the last year (I hear much more from the Pirate party in Germany - a few years ago I believe the exact opposite was true (that the Pirate party in Sweden was by far the most successful in Europe)). I hope I'm wrong but I don't see how the Pirate party will ever get into parliament in Sweden and the only thing I can hope for is that the German, and other, Pirate parties will be successful and that that result in changes within the EU as well as reignite the spark in Sweden. But I barely even dare to hope on anything.
- bnr 14y ago
  I don't think the way the Pirate Party works internally right now, i.e. very broad discussions trying to take every member's opinion into account, will scale to the size and speed needed if they join a ruling coalition. Their Liquid Democracy voting and delegation tool seems very promising for that use case, though.
woodpanel 14y ago
High Pirate Party Numbers = 4 more years for Angela Merkel I welcome the German pirates for several reasons: - "the discussion it brought up is already very beneficial." - they have a high turn out of former non-voters - "harmless stupidity": The German pirates seem to be ambivalent as of now. For instance, they are the only left-wing party that's not in favor of female employee quotas (an idea so absurd, there's not even an english wikipedia entry http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frauenquote http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frauenquote). If they dig deeper into this populist lefty anti-authoritarian theme (as it seems to be the case) the first thing they will achieve is less votes for the other left-wing parties. And personally, I think this would be a good thing (see "female employee quotas").
- philippK 14y ago
  I think it's pretty unlikely that they fully get into all that "gender politics" stuff like the greens. That has several reasons - mainly the see themselves as more "liberal" (it has a different meaning here than in the us) than greens, and also they are not as female-dominated in their ranks as greens are. I think it's unlikely that they'll embrace a full blown "Frauenquote" (funny how there isn't an english wikipedia entry for it ^^), because the discussion inside the party (i am not a member) seems to be going in a direction they call "post gender". I think this post gender idead, by and large, is a good one. I hope they'll pursue this path more, bringing an approach of true equality to politics instead of the "gender fights" other left-leaning parties like to put on the political stage.
- rmc 14y ago
  female employee quotas an idea so absurd, there's not even an english wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_government#Quotas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_government#Quotas
- cabalamat 14y ago
  > High Pirate Party Numbers = 4 more years for Angela Merkel How does that follow?
  - brazzy 14y ago

Falkvinge 14y ago

I wonder why the photo says "Nerz Attends". His name is Sebastian Nerz. My guess is that somebody chose the first two words from a random sentence (i.e. "Nerz attends the general assembly") and tagged the photo with that as a name.

brico 14y ago

This has nothing to do with their politics, it is simply the fact that they offer an alternative, people will vote for them because they don't feel represented by the other parties. They are new, they are cool, they have an "anti-authoritarian" vibe, they will achieve nothing and be forgotten in a couple of years. The funny thing is, the "Greens" are considered old, they have achieved nothing (there's still a massive oil dependency, there are still nuclear reactors, ...) and now they panic :) Edit: the Pirates can gain traction by promising people "if we only had the power, we could do this or that" and they can increase their popularity by simply critisizing the current parties in power ("we would have it done some other way, we would have [insert popular opinion]") but in the end they will change nothing, just read up on the history of the Greens and just replace the name with Pirates

Falkvinge 14y ago
just like the previous international waves like the green movement and that silly workers' party
- ZeroGravitas 14y ago
  More on this topic here: "We're the New Green Movement," Says Pirate Party Founder http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elisabeth-braw/pirate-party_b_1293277.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elisabeth-braw/pirate-party_b_... edit: just realized I'm replying to the person interviewed in my link!
brazzy 14y ago
Claiming that the Greens achieved nothing is rather ridiculous. They achieved a lot of things (most importantly that protecting the environment has become an issue none of the other parties can simply ignore). That they did not achieve everything they wanted at some point is the nature of democracy (and reality). It's true that the Pirate Party is right now getting attention and votes through hype and protest voters, and that they choose their stances based on ideals rather than realism. They'll have all kinds of problems when these things change (as they will have to). But the Greens are a perfect example for a new party that pulled through all this and became firmly established because their core issue is important enough.

Falkvinge 14y ago

Also worth noting: the Austrian pirate party entered the polls at 7% with a sonic boom on April 7.

philippK 14y ago

I'm from germany, and have voted for the pirate party in recent local elections. I'd like to add a few things: 1. The german system of government is very much different from the US. In the US you have by-and-large a "winner takes it all" voting system. In germany, by contrast, we have a system of proportional representation. That means, winning 10% of the popular vote nets you 10% of the seats that are on the line in your voting district. That's why we currently have 6 parties in our federal parliament ("Bundestag") - where you have only 2 parties in congress. 2. Although this is "just" a poll it isn't meaningless. The pirate party has been steadily building up momentum in the last 2 years. They now are the 5th largest party by member count in germany. They have also scored surprisingly high wins in two recent regional elections, and are set to repeat those gains in the two upcoming elections. 3. The pirate party runs on a platform of systemic reform. They want copyright reformed to be more compatible with the 21st century. They want a reformed educational sector with more use of modern technology in the classroom, as well as improved structures (i.e. more freedom to pursue different educational models). They also want to reform the political system at large, by having more citizen participation in political decisions. They want more public votes on specific issues, as well as more transparency (For example: ACTA was negotiated in secret and only announced to the german public once the details were finished. They pirates strongly oppose such intransparency.) This helped them to capture the votes of young, highly educated people. Many, but by no means all, from the "informatics" sector. They have also mobilized many first time voters, and re-energized many people who had formerly abandoned voting. 4. What's currently also helping them is the bad state of our government (the governing coalition is in disarray), their inability to answer to the challenges shaping our future, their corruption (our head of state recently had to resign in shame), their detachedness from concerns of everyday people. This greatly helps them to get the vote of people who are disaffected with the "established" parties and who are ready to give those "political youngsters" a chance. It's by no means guaranteed, but they seem to be on the way of becoming a serious political force in germany.

philippK 14y ago
Update: You'll find the exact polling data here: http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/forsa.htm http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/forsa.htm (FORSA institute, showing the most recent poll where they are ahead of the greens) http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm (overall overview from different pollsters)

yaix 14y ago

I really wish I was in Europe now to participate more in this. If you ever wanted to get info politics (even only a little bit), now is the perfect time. Next elections into the Bundestag and four years later into the gov't. And in ten years the European commissioner for IT things will be a Pirate, harrr harrr!

maebert 14y ago
When following politics I sometimes secretly wish I didn't move from Germany to Spain, where the political scenery is a tad more... predictable. That being said, I see absolutely no reason why the Pirates should be part of the government. Germany has had almost 20 years of policy blocking and mindlessly bullying oppositions (from both sides of the political spectrum), but maybe this can actually change with the Pirates - an opposition that has no problem in granting the governing parties their successes.
- yaix 14y ago
  Or the junior partner of a gov't coalition that actually gets things done. How's Spain more predictable? I am sure they could use some Pirates too.
  - maebert 14y ago
    They could (well, there is an Pirate party, and it may even get above the magic 0.01% threshold...), but the major political players don't change much, and definitely not as rapidly as in Germany.

jpdus 14y ago

Quite interesting is also their approach to finding positions via voting on an open online platform (which is open sourced by the way: http://www.public-software-group.org/liquid_feedback http://www.public-software-group.org/liquid_feedback ) where each member can vote itself and also delegate its vote for different topics to other members.

mtrimpe 14y ago
I didn't know that. I was dreaming of a party that voted like this based on the input of all it's constituents since ten years or so. Maybe I should move to Berlin after all!
philippK 14y ago
You can even participate if you are not a party member. And that's what their long term vision also includes: Large scale, direct, participation (using digital means) of many people in the political process. They call this concept "Liquid democracy" See here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delegative_Democracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delegative_Democracy http://liqd.net/en/ http://liqd.net/en/

viandante 14y ago

This is good news. But I am not sure yet if I would vote for them (usually I do not vote). Their economic policy seems not mature enough or too much towards an even more socialist State. This is what is now failing us in most of the western Europe. I would really like to see some groups against copyright/patent madness AND against public spending/over taxation madness we have been struggling with for the last decades. Unfortunately, it seems that in Europe those ideas tend to polarize between 2 'very' different groups such as left (and not even all) for the copyright thing and right (and not even all) for the taxes thing. And that's why I do not vote.

philippK 14y ago
well i have bad news for you. the only party in germany that is really pro free market capitalism, the FDP, is on its way to obscurity due to severe policy missteps. All the other parties embrace, as we call it here, "social capitalism" to varying degrees. So, in germany, you mainly have the choice between several "left leaning" parties. When measured by US standards, most our parties are "socialist".
- viandante 14y ago
  As much as definitions are concerned, also US has only socialist parties. The first problem begins when your parties only discuss about further spending and never about expense reductions (as in US too). The other problem begins when the State thinks it has the right to decide on things that should be left to the individual, for example, it makes absolutely no sense that in Germany shops are mandated to be closed on Saturdays (less of this in Us?). Finally, as there is no pure socialism/capitalism, I believe we should look at few simple things. For example, effective taxation (together with mandatory helthcare and pension) on the individual should not be 50% of his income (and it is in Italy, for example); public spending should not be 50% of GDP either. Let's start from here...
  - Tichy 14y ago
    It seems to be by US standards every state that collects taxes is socialist. After all, that means the government decides what to spend part of your money on. Why is it more socialist to spend the money on healthcare than on a new motorway?