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> If this one thing that annoys me on HN it's the pervasive anti-PHP snobbery. If there's one thing that annoys me on programmer forums in general, it's that p

> If this one thing that annoys me on HN it's the pervasive anti-PHP snobbery. If there's one thing that annoys me on programmer forums in general, it's that pointing out PHP's giant flaws is conflated with snobbery. Design matters, and that is not the same thing as saying it's impossible to build anything good with PHP.

smsm42 14y ago
Pointing out "giant" flaws which don't really matter and can't be fixed for 1000th time is very useful for... remind me please, what exactly purpose?
- nicholas_tuzzio 14y ago
  Convincing people to stop using such a flawed language when there are so many viable (and in nearly all ways preferable) alternatives.
  - smsm42 14y ago
    Obviously, since millions of people are using it it is preferable for them. Of course, this is only because they are too stupid to agree with you and have the exactly the same criteria and preferences that you have. It can't be that intelligent people can disagree with you on what is important and what is not in a language. It's clearly either you didn't explain it to them or they're too stupid to understand. Let's write another "PHP sucks" article, that will do it.
    - mmj48 14y ago
      > It can't be that intelligent people can disagree with you on what is important and what is not in a language. This is quite harsh sarcasm, but if it isn't true for the GP, it's true for so many people. Well said.
    - jtc331 14y ago
      It's just that the people who disagree generally aren't really programmars, they're designers turned quasi-web-developers. The community does them a disservice by pointing them at a giant pile of crap and saying "Go use this. You'll be fine."
      - smsm42 14y ago
        People who disagree are "programmars" just fine. They just know how to use proper tools for the job given, instead of ranting because they're too lazy to read the manual, like author of the post.
        yusefnapora 14y ago
        Did the author give you the impression that he was "too lazy to read the manual?" I got almost the exact opposite impression, that he had read the documentation to the point of exhaustion and found it severely lacking.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
- guccimane 14y ago
  Oh, you mean as opposed to the usefulness of calling people snobs because they understand that PHP is terribly designed? Fuck outta here.
  - maratd 14y ago
    You don't like it? Don't use it. You're the kind of asshole that'll walk up to somebody in McDonalds and tell them that the food they're eating isn't healthy. You know what? Mind your own business.
    - rictic 14y ago
      No, this is more like writing a long, well reasoned, extensively researched article with the thesis "McDonalds food is unhealthy". It is a public good. No one in this comment section is saying to you "stop using php on this project you're doing because it's badly designed". No one is in your business.
    - jtc331 14y ago
      The thing is we need to stop advising people to use it in the first place. That's what we're advocating. That is, we're not telling people to stop after they've gone into McDonalds, we're decrying the fact that so-called health experts are telling people that McDonalds is actually just fine for you. That's a better analogy.
      - maratd 14y ago
        > The thing is we need to stop advising people to use it in the first place. That's what we're advocating. Who are you to advocate that? Or to advocate anything? I despise people who presume to know what's in the best interest of others. You only know what's in your best interest. You have no idea what is good for anyone else. You want to share your experience? Great. Do it when it's asked for. Nobody asked for a hit piece on PHP. > we're decrying the fact that so-called health experts are telling people that McDonalds is actually just fine for you. Exactly which maven and luminary of computer science has advocated the use of PHP? That is outright nonsense. At no point has that happened. PHP grew organically, without a single endorsement.
- fadzlan 14y ago
  I'd like to know how much of his massive complaint "don't really matter". Programming language critic come up every now and then in HN, this is nothing new. If you got a point, why not refute it? Are you saying language design don't matter and not worth discussing?

smsm42 14y ago

Pointing out "giant" flaws which don't really matter and can't be fixed for 1000th time is very useful for... remind me please, what exactly purpose?

nicholas_tuzzio 14y ago
Convincing people to stop using such a flawed language when there are so many viable (and in nearly all ways preferable) alternatives.
- smsm42 14y ago
  Obviously, since millions of people are using it it is preferable for them. Of course, this is only because they are too stupid to agree with you and have the exactly the same criteria and preferences that you have. It can't be that intelligent people can disagree with you on what is important and what is not in a language. It's clearly either you didn't explain it to them or they're too stupid to understand. Let's write another "PHP sucks" article, that will do it.
  - mmj48 14y ago
    > It can't be that intelligent people can disagree with you on what is important and what is not in a language. This is quite harsh sarcasm, but if it isn't true for the GP, it's true for so many people. Well said.
  - jtc331 14y ago
    It's just that the people who disagree generally aren't really programmars, they're designers turned quasi-web-developers. The community does them a disservice by pointing them at a giant pile of crap and saying "Go use this. You'll be fine."
    - smsm42 14y ago
      People who disagree are "programmars" just fine. They just know how to use proper tools for the job given, instead of ranting because they're too lazy to read the manual, like author of the post.
      - yusefnapora 14y ago
        Did the author give you the impression that he was "too lazy to read the manual?" I got almost the exact opposite impression, that he had read the documentation to the point of exhaustion and found it severely lacking.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
guccimane 14y ago
Oh, you mean as opposed to the usefulness of calling people snobs because they understand that PHP is terribly designed? Fuck outta here.
- maratd 14y ago
  You don't like it? Don't use it. You're the kind of asshole that'll walk up to somebody in McDonalds and tell them that the food they're eating isn't healthy. You know what? Mind your own business.
  - rictic 14y ago
    No, this is more like writing a long, well reasoned, extensively researched article with the thesis "McDonalds food is unhealthy". It is a public good. No one in this comment section is saying to you "stop using php on this project you're doing because it's badly designed". No one is in your business.
  - jtc331 14y ago
    The thing is we need to stop advising people to use it in the first place. That's what we're advocating. That is, we're not telling people to stop after they've gone into McDonalds, we're decrying the fact that so-called health experts are telling people that McDonalds is actually just fine for you. That's a better analogy.
    - maratd 14y ago
      > The thing is we need to stop advising people to use it in the first place. That's what we're advocating. Who are you to advocate that? Or to advocate anything? I despise people who presume to know what's in the best interest of others. You only know what's in your best interest. You have no idea what is good for anyone else. You want to share your experience? Great. Do it when it's asked for. Nobody asked for a hit piece on PHP. > we're decrying the fact that so-called health experts are telling people that McDonalds is actually just fine for you. Exactly which maven and luminary of computer science has advocated the use of PHP? That is outright nonsense. At no point has that happened. PHP grew organically, without a single endorsement.
fadzlan 14y ago
I'd like to know how much of his massive complaint "don't really matter". Programming language critic come up every now and then in HN, this is nothing new. If you got a point, why not refute it? Are you saying language design don't matter and not worth discussing?