6 ms·

ah yes, the mythical good hiring process.

cantSpellSober 3y ago
Are all hiring processes exactly the same? Or are some better than others? If the latter, are any better enough to be good?
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Are all hiring processes exactly the same? No, but almost none of them are “good” if “good” is defined as “eliminates all influence of biases irrelevant to performance such that superficial things like appearance play a role not explicable by their ability to predict performance.”
  - cantSpellSober 3y ago
    >> Are all hiring processes exactly the same? > No Agreed! Some are better than others. > if “good” is defined as... Oh, I never defined "good" that way. Keyword being "mitigate" (you replaced it with "eliminate"). Apologies for your confusion.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      You used the word “mitigate” but in the same post also expressed surprise that any bias effect was left at all, which indicated you expected elimination of the effect from a “good hiring process" rather than mere mitigation.
      - cantSpellSober 3y ago
        No, I used the word "mitigate" to indicate I expected mitigation... > expressed surprise that any bias effect was left at all Nope, if you scroll up you'll see that "somewhat" word there (you replaced it with "at all").
        dragonwriter 3y ago
        You responded to a post saying that the effect exists (neither characterizing magnitude nor what the base rate would be without mitigation) and said you were surprised that was the case. If you only expect mitigation, there would be no basis for surprise, of any degree, at the mere fact of the effect existing.
        cantSpellSober 3y ago
        > there would be no basis for surprise, of any degree That's what the "somewhat" is for. Apologies again for your confusion.
        dragonwriter 3y ago
        If it was mitigated somewhat, the effect would still exist. The issue is the expression of surprise with the mere statement that the effect exists. I’m not confused, you said two things that don't make sense together in one post, each of which is perfectly clear.
        cantSpellSober 3y ago
        > If it was mitigated somewhat, the effect would still exist Agreed! I'm glad you now understand. I'm surprised it wasn't somewhat mitigated (first post).
        dragonwriter 3y ago
        > I'm surprised it wasn't somewhat mitigated How do you judge that it wasn't, as there is no information as to what the base rate would be if it wasn’t “sonewhat mitigated” by hiring processes.
        cantSpellSober 3y ago
        Apologies, but it's already been exhausting enough reducing all your confusion. The study answers your question if you read it.
  - flappyeagle 3y ago
    People who are not serious about hiring think this is the goal. This is not the goal. The goal is to bring people on board who will successfully utilize your resources to bring success to your organization. Eliminating bias is a red herring. You’re better off trying to increase your bias so that it statistically gets you a higher chance of hiring the people you want.
    - cantSpellSober 3y ago
      My most cynical reason for seeking to reduce bias is because I want to hire — as you said — people that will bring success to our organization, without my biases clouding my judgement. > You’re better off trying to increase your bias Care to elaborate? That sounds like a terrible idea to me, I'd prefer to hire people based on their skills, not my biases. From the study: > we do not find a strong correlation between “looking the part” and job performance ...hiring based on biases didn't help.
      - flappyeagle 3y ago
        Bias for looks might not be useful. Bias toward people who were extremely serious magic the gathering players is more useful. Find the right vector to bias on.
        cantSpellSober 3y ago
        If you ask two separate candidates "what is 1 + 1?" and one responds "2" and the other responds "37" but played a card game when they were young, would you hire the latter? (hypotheticals are cheap, but you get my point)
        flappyeagle 3y ago
        It’s like you’re trying to misunderstand. But whatever the internet is for arguing. Were they ranked globally? Did they place top 8 at worlds? If they were, and they answered 37, then I might question my understanding of math.

Are all hiring processes exactly the same? Or are some better than others? If the latter, are any better enough to be good?

dragonwriter 3y ago
> Are all hiring processes exactly the same? No, but almost none of them are “good” if “good” is defined as “eliminates all influence of biases irrelevant to performance such that superficial things like appearance play a role not explicable by their ability to predict performance.”
- cantSpellSober 3y ago
  >> Are all hiring processes exactly the same? > No Agreed! Some are better than others. > if “good” is defined as... Oh, I never defined "good" that way. Keyword being "mitigate" (you replaced it with "eliminate"). Apologies for your confusion.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    You used the word “mitigate” but in the same post also expressed surprise that any bias effect was left at all, which indicated you expected elimination of the effect from a “good hiring process" rather than mere mitigation.
    - cantSpellSober 3y ago
      No, I used the word "mitigate" to indicate I expected mitigation... > expressed surprise that any bias effect was left at all Nope, if you scroll up you'll see that "somewhat" word there (you replaced it with "at all").
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
        You responded to a post saying that the effect exists (neither characterizing magnitude nor what the base rate would be without mitigation) and said you were surprised that was the case. If you only expect mitigation, there would be no basis for surprise, of any degree, at the mere fact of the effect existing.
        cantSpellSober 3y ago
        > there would be no basis for surprise, of any degree That's what the "somewhat" is for. Apologies again for your confusion.
        dragonwriter 3y ago
        If it was mitigated somewhat, the effect would still exist. The issue is the expression of surprise with the mere statement that the effect exists. I’m not confused, you said two things that don't make sense together in one post, each of which is perfectly clear.
        cantSpellSober 3y ago
        > If it was mitigated somewhat, the effect would still exist Agreed! I'm glad you now understand. I'm surprised it wasn't somewhat mitigated (first post).
        dragonwriter 3y ago
        > I'm surprised it wasn't somewhat mitigated How do you judge that it wasn't, as there is no information as to what the base rate would be if it wasn’t “sonewhat mitigated” by hiring processes.
        cantSpellSober 3y ago
        Apologies, but it's already been exhausting enough reducing all your confusion. The study answers your question if you read it.
- flappyeagle 3y ago
  People who are not serious about hiring think this is the goal. This is not the goal. The goal is to bring people on board who will successfully utilize your resources to bring success to your organization. Eliminating bias is a red herring. You’re better off trying to increase your bias so that it statistically gets you a higher chance of hiring the people you want.
  - cantSpellSober 3y ago
    My most cynical reason for seeking to reduce bias is because I want to hire — as you said — people that will bring success to our organization, without my biases clouding my judgement. > You’re better off trying to increase your bias Care to elaborate? That sounds like a terrible idea to me, I'd prefer to hire people based on their skills, not my biases. From the study: > we do not find a strong correlation between “looking the part” and job performance ...hiring based on biases didn't help.
    - flappyeagle 3y ago
      Bias for looks might not be useful. Bias toward people who were extremely serious magic the gathering players is more useful. Find the right vector to bias on.
      - cantSpellSober 3y ago
        If you ask two separate candidates "what is 1 + 1?" and one responds "2" and the other responds "37" but played a card game when they were young, would you hire the latter? (hypotheticals are cheap, but you get my point)
        flappyeagle 3y ago
        It’s like you’re trying to misunderstand. But whatever the internet is for arguing. Were they ranked globally? Did they place top 8 at worlds? If they were, and they answered 37, then I might question my understanding of math.