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I don't understand how you think that building up defensive capabilities is provoking war. Making the cost of invading higher makes it less likely the PRC will

by rodonn 3y ago

I don't understand how you think that building up defensive capabilities is provoking war. Making the cost of invading higher makes it less likely the PRC will try to invade. The US's long standing goal has been to preserve peace in the Taiwan strait by making the cost of attempting to invade sufficiently high to deter PRC from making the attempt at invading https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3531094/us-strengthening-deterrence-in-taiwan-strait/ https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/35...

corethree 3y ago
Russia did the same thing to Cuba. Just like one or two missiles. Did you see how the US reacted to that? Honestly what do you think the Chinese are thinking? We whine at even one missile in Cuba while China and every other country has to accept the fact that the US has military weapons and outposts around the world. Seriously this is a hugely provocative move. Also as a Taiwanese person I agree with the US about how the lives of Taiwanese people are more important then those in Gaza (sarcasm). Weaponize Taiwan but let Israel slaughter its enemies. In reality the US could give a shit about either people. This is a story about patriotism and power. China is becoming an economic and technological peer to the US and in order to stop it the US needs to stop china from controlling the Pacific and tsmc. This is what's going on. Not some preservation of peace, that's garbage. The attitude of the American public largely echoes your point of view. Basically at the back of your mind you know it's a power play coming out of jealousy and fear, but we lie to ourselves and pretend it's some sort of move to defend the innocent people of Taiwan. Well as I stated earlier that's a lie we Americans tell ourselves. I have a realistic view of this because my heritage straddles both worlds and I can tell you the US side is the delusional one. To clarify the US is making logical and rational military maneuvers in terms of power projection at the greatest threat but their justification for such maneuvers is delusional. Your post is one example of the delusion. The hypocrisy of what's going on in the middleeast and Ukraine is proof of that. Unless you actually believe that the lives of Taiwanese people are worth more than those in Ukraine and the middleeast. Think about why military intervention is justified for Taiwan and not Ukraine.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  > Honestly what do you think the Chinese are thinking? We whine at even one missile in Cuba To my knowledge we have not equipped Taiwan with nuclear missiles, which is what the Cuban Missile Crisis was about. Big difference. > while China and every other country has to accept the fact that the US has military weapons and outposts around the world. Seriously this is a hugely provocative move. provocative seems like a questionable choice of words, given that the US military has time and time again been used to resist militarists & authoritarians exploiting populations. We have enormous military capability that we don't use, that is not for making war, but defending the world against warlike powers. > China is becoming an economic and technological peer to the US and in order to stop it the US needs to stop china from controlling the Pacific and tsmc. This is what's going on. Can't it become an economic and technological power without pushing around & pushing out so many neighbors? Here's to Chinas rise, I hope it does great, but it keeps acting so zero sum, keeps creating conflict, and it gives everyone great unease to see such military buildup from a country that keeps acting hard & ardent to those around it. > The attitude of the American public largely echoes your point of view. Basically at the back of your mind you know it's a power play coming out of jealousy and fear, Absolutely on fear. We are scared of an authoritarian country so ready to go to war with it's neighbors, so willing to push people around. We have projected power so far for so long, but so rarely begun conflict, in hopes of preventing destabilization in the world, in hopes of preventing authoritarian overreach. As for the whataboutism of other situations, the US has greatly helped Ukraine & our direct involvement would make it World War scale, so let's not if we can. We have both given Israel Patriot and Iron Dome missile-defense systems, while trying to get neighbors & Israel moving towards peaceful resolution. We are trying. Although you lambast us in these situations, we seem to be doing all we can in both situations to re-stabilize the world & in spite of your sharp words it's unclear what we could be doing better.
  - corethree 3y ago
    >To my knowledge we have not equipped Taiwan with nuclear missiles, which is what the Cuban Missile Crisis was about. Big difference. It's big but nowhere near as big as you imply. Think about it from a chinese citizens perspective. How big of a difference is air raids, bombings and missiles vs. nuclear missiles? Would the chinese citizen be calm and nonchalant if it was just non-nuclear weapons and suddenly be thrown into hysteria by nuclear weapons? Let's be real here. It's a physical threat. >provocative seems like a questionable choice of words, given that the US military has time and time again been used to resist militarists & authoritarians exploiting populations. We have enormous military capability that we don't use, that is not for making war, but defending the world against warlike powers. Our military power is used for maintaining our own power. Just look at gaza. Again we aren't doing shit because it's not a threat to american power. Taiwan Is. Hence the difference in response. It's unrealistic to characterize the US as some international white knight. Clearly we aren't. >Can't it become an economic and technological power without pushing around & pushing out so many neighbors? Here's to Chinas rise, I hope it does great, but it keeps acting so zero sum, keeps creating conflict, and it gives everyone great unease to see such military buildup from a country that keeps acting hard & ardent to those around it. Unlikely. The US did a ton of pushing around. A ton. and it largely gets it's way on the international front. China is pushing it's way to become an equal player and that's unacceptable for the US. This is normal. It wouldn't be acceptable for China either if it's the other way around. Both countries are human. I think you're placing the US on a bit of pedestal. You remember how the Bush administration basically lied and made up a bunch of shit about WMDs just to go to war in Iraq right? That whole fiasco basically puts a hole in your "white knight" view point. >Absolutely on fear. We are scared of an authoritarian country so ready to go to war with it's neighbors, so willing to push people around. We have projected power so far for so long, but so rarely begun conflict, in hopes of preventing destabilization in the world, in hopes of preventing authoritarian overreach. Largely disagree with this. The US is not some White Knight projecting power to keep stability. It chooses it's conflicts based on it's own interests. >As for the whataboutism of other situations, the US has greatly helped Ukraine & our direct involvement would make it World War scale, so let's not if we can. Direct involvement in war with China will be world war scale and the US doesn't hesitate in this matter. Russia is the greater threat for war because Russia is just less stable. China is less of a threat for war but the US steps up military power here because China is more of a peer and competitor on the world stage. Let's be real here. >Although you lambast us in these situations, we seem to be doing all we can in both situations to re-stabilize the world We are doing our best to maintain an edge over China. That's what we're doing. That's the entire point of why there's so much military projection in Asia and none towards say Gaza. Does Gaza have a threat for world war? No.. so your theory doesn't apply here.

by rodonn 3y ago

corethree 3y ago

Russia did the same thing to Cuba. Just like one or two missiles. Did you see how the US reacted to that? Honestly what do you think the Chinese are thinking? We whine at even one missile in Cuba while China and every other country has to accept the fact that the US has military weapons and outposts around the world. Seriously this is a hugely provocative move. Also as a Taiwanese person I agree with the US about how the lives of Taiwanese people are more important then those in Gaza (sarcasm). Weaponize Taiwan but let Israel slaughter its enemies. In reality the US could give a shit about either people. This is a story about patriotism and power. China is becoming an economic and technological peer to the US and in order to stop it the US needs to stop china from controlling the Pacific and tsmc. This is what's going on. Not some preservation of peace, that's garbage. The attitude of the American public largely echoes your point of view. Basically at the back of your mind you know it's a power play coming out of jealousy and fear, but we lie to ourselves and pretend it's some sort of move to defend the innocent people of Taiwan. Well as I stated earlier that's a lie we Americans tell ourselves. I have a realistic view of this because my heritage straddles both worlds and I can tell you the US side is the delusional one. To clarify the US is making logical and rational military maneuvers in terms of power projection at the greatest threat but their justification for such maneuvers is delusional. Your post is one example of the delusion. The hypocrisy of what's going on in the middleeast and Ukraine is proof of that. Unless you actually believe that the lives of Taiwanese people are worth more than those in Ukraine and the middleeast. Think about why military intervention is justified for Taiwan and not Ukraine.

jauntywundrkind 3y ago
> Honestly what do you think the Chinese are thinking? We whine at even one missile in Cuba To my knowledge we have not equipped Taiwan with nuclear missiles, which is what the Cuban Missile Crisis was about. Big difference. > while China and every other country has to accept the fact that the US has military weapons and outposts around the world. Seriously this is a hugely provocative move. provocative seems like a questionable choice of words, given that the US military has time and time again been used to resist militarists & authoritarians exploiting populations. We have enormous military capability that we don't use, that is not for making war, but defending the world against warlike powers. > China is becoming an economic and technological peer to the US and in order to stop it the US needs to stop china from controlling the Pacific and tsmc. This is what's going on. Can't it become an economic and technological power without pushing around & pushing out so many neighbors? Here's to Chinas rise, I hope it does great, but it keeps acting so zero sum, keeps creating conflict, and it gives everyone great unease to see such military buildup from a country that keeps acting hard & ardent to those around it. > The attitude of the American public largely echoes your point of view. Basically at the back of your mind you know it's a power play coming out of jealousy and fear, Absolutely on fear. We are scared of an authoritarian country so ready to go to war with it's neighbors, so willing to push people around. We have projected power so far for so long, but so rarely begun conflict, in hopes of preventing destabilization in the world, in hopes of preventing authoritarian overreach. As for the whataboutism of other situations, the US has greatly helped Ukraine & our direct involvement would make it World War scale, so let's not if we can. We have both given Israel Patriot and Iron Dome missile-defense systems, while trying to get neighbors & Israel moving towards peaceful resolution. We are trying. Although you lambast us in these situations, we seem to be doing all we can in both situations to re-stabilize the world & in spite of your sharp words it's unclear what we could be doing better.
- corethree 3y ago
  >To my knowledge we have not equipped Taiwan with nuclear missiles, which is what the Cuban Missile Crisis was about. Big difference. It's big but nowhere near as big as you imply. Think about it from a chinese citizens perspective. How big of a difference is air raids, bombings and missiles vs. nuclear missiles? Would the chinese citizen be calm and nonchalant if it was just non-nuclear weapons and suddenly be thrown into hysteria by nuclear weapons? Let's be real here. It's a physical threat. >provocative seems like a questionable choice of words, given that the US military has time and time again been used to resist militarists & authoritarians exploiting populations. We have enormous military capability that we don't use, that is not for making war, but defending the world against warlike powers. Our military power is used for maintaining our own power. Just look at gaza. Again we aren't doing shit because it's not a threat to american power. Taiwan Is. Hence the difference in response. It's unrealistic to characterize the US as some international white knight. Clearly we aren't. >Can't it become an economic and technological power without pushing around & pushing out so many neighbors? Here's to Chinas rise, I hope it does great, but it keeps acting so zero sum, keeps creating conflict, and it gives everyone great unease to see such military buildup from a country that keeps acting hard & ardent to those around it. Unlikely. The US did a ton of pushing around. A ton. and it largely gets it's way on the international front. China is pushing it's way to become an equal player and that's unacceptable for the US. This is normal. It wouldn't be acceptable for China either if it's the other way around. Both countries are human. I think you're placing the US on a bit of pedestal. You remember how the Bush administration basically lied and made up a bunch of shit about WMDs just to go to war in Iraq right? That whole fiasco basically puts a hole in your "white knight" view point. >Absolutely on fear. We are scared of an authoritarian country so ready to go to war with it's neighbors, so willing to push people around. We have projected power so far for so long, but so rarely begun conflict, in hopes of preventing destabilization in the world, in hopes of preventing authoritarian overreach. Largely disagree with this. The US is not some White Knight projecting power to keep stability. It chooses it's conflicts based on it's own interests. >As for the whataboutism of other situations, the US has greatly helped Ukraine & our direct involvement would make it World War scale, so let's not if we can. Direct involvement in war with China will be world war scale and the US doesn't hesitate in this matter. Russia is the greater threat for war because Russia is just less stable. China is less of a threat for war but the US steps up military power here because China is more of a peer and competitor on the world stage. Let's be real here. >Although you lambast us in these situations, we seem to be doing all we can in both situations to re-stabilize the world We are doing our best to maintain an edge over China. That's what we're doing. That's the entire point of why there's so much military projection in Asia and none towards say Gaza. Does Gaza have a threat for world war? No.. so your theory doesn't apply here.