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The following quote from former Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European Commission sums up the way the EU seems to work quite nicely: "We decide on some

by mbwgh 3y ago

The following quote from former Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European Commission sums up the way the EU seems to work quite nicely: "We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back."[0] [0] - https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker

graemep 3y ago
Wow, a lot of those quotes are damning.
- SiempreViernes 3y ago
  Doubt it is a particularly unbiased sample though, so probably not a good idea to draw any strong conclusions from reading it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - belter 3y ago
    “it is a historic mistake to not want to tax at the appropriate levels the profits of multinational companies which act globally and don’t pay the taxes they owe.” - Jean-Claude Juncker ...Prime minister of ....Luxembourg
    - SiempreViernes 3y ago
      Mr LuxLeaks said that eh? I mean, I'm not saying Juncker is great, just that reading the random collection of quotes on wikiquotes might not be the best way to judge his work.
vanderZwan 3y ago
The worst part is that this is still better than how most governments currently work. At least there is a chance to give feedback. Also, keep in mind that this is in the context of getting all member states of the EU to agree on something. People kicking up a fuss is the default situation because of conflicting interests between different states. Make no mistake about how I feel about this though: it's still pretty horrible even with that context in mind. And as graemep pointed out the rest of the quotes on that page will tell you all you need to know about Juncker too.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  I think the worst part is, that most governments work like this, but only some can dare to speak about it in the open. Now why could Juncker speak so open? Probably because he is quite disconnected from the democratic election process .. I mean, I certainly did not vote for Ursula von der Leyen either.
  - p_l 3y ago
    Your representatives that you voted into parliament did, however.
    - laszlokorte 3y ago
      The „same opinion as“ operator does not distribute over the transitive equality relation
    - softg 3y ago
      She was nominated by the European Council (=Heads of gov't of EU countries) because the EU parliament is a divided mess and the leading parties have no internal cohesion whatsoever. Parties at the european level are disparate coalitions between national parties and MEPs follow the national party line. The decision was made by national governments and rubber-stamped by the parliament. This is fundamentally different from how a PM is voted in a traditional parliamentary system where an MP leads the party during the election process and elected as PM after a clear victory or negotiations between MPs.
franky47 3y ago
But the plans were on display…” “On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.” “That’s the display department.” “With a flashlight.” “Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.” “So had the stairs.” “But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?” “Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard. Douglas Adams wasn't far off.
- vanderZwan 3y ago
  The interesting part with the EU is that all policy (proposed and accepted) is actually all organized, findable and out in the open on the internet (and even translated to all official member state languages IIRC)... if you have the mindset of a bureaucrat and know the system. I know because my ex did European Studies and knew how to navigate those websites. I for the life of me cannot figure out how she did it if I try now.
  - arp242 3y ago
    EU website makes the IBM and HP websites seem user-friendly and easy. I tried engaging with some of the Open Source stuff a few years ago, and I definitely felt like I needed a "European Studies" PhD to be able to navigate all of that.
    - orwin 3y ago
      A really good friend of mine created the first version of eur-lex.europa (hopefully it's that one, it was a website for lawyers to find European legislation and case law), he barely finished his first internship at the time, only had one true web project on his belt (and two weeks of intensive formation), and was spectacularly underpaid (not for his inexistant qualifications, but for the work he did). I thought he did a good work, but I was a student too so maybe I was just impressed with basic stuff (highly likely).
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
belter 3y ago
"When it becomes serious, you have to lie'" - Jean-Claude Juncker
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by mbwgh 3y ago

graemep 3y ago

Wow, a lot of those quotes are damning.

SiempreViernes 3y ago
Doubt it is a particularly unbiased sample though, so probably not a good idea to draw any strong conclusions from reading it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- belter 3y ago
  “it is a historic mistake to not want to tax at the appropriate levels the profits of multinational companies which act globally and don’t pay the taxes they owe.” - Jean-Claude Juncker ...Prime minister of ....Luxembourg
  - SiempreViernes 3y ago
    Mr LuxLeaks said that eh? I mean, I'm not saying Juncker is great, just that reading the random collection of quotes on wikiquotes might not be the best way to judge his work.

vanderZwan 3y ago

The worst part is that this is still better than how most governments currently work. At least there is a chance to give feedback. Also, keep in mind that this is in the context of getting all member states of the EU to agree on something. People kicking up a fuss is the default situation because of conflicting interests between different states. Make no mistake about how I feel about this though: it's still pretty horrible even with that context in mind. And as graemep pointed out the rest of the quotes on that page will tell you all you need to know about Juncker too.

hutzlibu 3y ago
I think the worst part is, that most governments work like this, but only some can dare to speak about it in the open. Now why could Juncker speak so open? Probably because he is quite disconnected from the democratic election process .. I mean, I certainly did not vote for Ursula von der Leyen either.
- p_l 3y ago
  Your representatives that you voted into parliament did, however.
  - laszlokorte 3y ago
    The „same opinion as“ operator does not distribute over the transitive equality relation
  - softg 3y ago
    She was nominated by the European Council (=Heads of gov't of EU countries) because the EU parliament is a divided mess and the leading parties have no internal cohesion whatsoever. Parties at the european level are disparate coalitions between national parties and MEPs follow the national party line. The decision was made by national governments and rubber-stamped by the parliament. This is fundamentally different from how a PM is voted in a traditional parliamentary system where an MP leads the party during the election process and elected as PM after a clear victory or negotiations between MPs.

franky47 3y ago

But the plans were on display…” “On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.” “That’s the display department.” “With a flashlight.” “Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.” “So had the stairs.” “But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?” “Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard. Douglas Adams wasn't far off.

vanderZwan 3y ago
The interesting part with the EU is that all policy (proposed and accepted) is actually all organized, findable and out in the open on the internet (and even translated to all official member state languages IIRC)... if you have the mindset of a bureaucrat and know the system. I know because my ex did European Studies and knew how to navigate those websites. I for the life of me cannot figure out how she did it if I try now.
- arp242 3y ago
  EU website makes the IBM and HP websites seem user-friendly and easy. I tried engaging with some of the Open Source stuff a few years ago, and I definitely felt like I needed a "European Studies" PhD to be able to navigate all of that.
  - orwin 3y ago
    A really good friend of mine created the first version of eur-lex.europa (hopefully it's that one, it was a website for lawyers to find European legislation and case law), he barely finished his first internship at the time, only had one true web project on his belt (and two weeks of intensive formation), and was spectacularly underpaid (not for his inexistant qualifications, but for the work he did). I thought he did a good work, but I was a student too so maybe I was just impressed with basic stuff (highly likely).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

belter 3y ago

"When it becomes serious, you have to lie'" - Jean-Claude Juncker

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]