7 ms·

I don't think they've extended Linux in any meaningful way. I'd say we're at Embrace phase at best.

by yura 3y ago

Alifatisk 3y ago
You might be right, the extend stage would be WSL and now they are "embracing" Linux. In that case, what would the extinguish stage be?
- ranguna 3y ago
  Linux GUI apps that only work from WSL.
- FridgeSeal 3y ago
  Hypothesising: - Some kind of MS branded Linux, that offers improved security/performance/usability etc. it’ll offer full compatibility with existing distros like Debian that devs are already familiar with, but it’ll come pre-setup on windows and it’ll have an amazing integration with GitHub, VSCode and azure, and probably their K8s product too. Much like VSCode they’ll use their influence to get devs used to using it. They’ll probably sponsor a bunch of major OSS projects to use it and start offering features specific to it, bits of it will be “open sourced soon” or similar. The position of power and control will be exerted over it-much the same way Google does with chrome and how that is “open source”. - a linux compatible api layer over windows, with the angle of “no reason to need Linux anymore”, they’ll angle for large enterprise customers first, offering a Linux-compatible experience, to convert them. Similar experience with above, where the end to end (local to cloud) experience will be the focus. Once again they’ll integrate with existing tooling and major OSS players with the same goal-be so seamless and tightly integrated, and “works with existing tools” that devs will flock to it the way they do with chrome. Orgs and projects will switch to supporting it, probably because the overall experience is superior. That’s a couple of ideas off the top of my head, we could probably all come with some more scenarios.
  - isoprophlex 3y ago
    This is not good for my blood pressure
blueflow 3y ago
UEFI, GPT partitioning, verity boot and systemd on Linux have unexpected ties to Microsoft. The trend is that its becoming more and more difficult (due to reimplementation costs and dependency lock-ins) to do Linux in the non-Microsoft way. XDG, UKI and UAPI Standards are also written by people who are getting their paycheck from Microsoft.
- 0dayz 3y ago
  >systemd When will this tired piece of shit known as FUD die. With that logic then the damn Linux kernel got "unexpected" ties to Microsoft. >The trend is that its becoming more and more difficult (due to reimplementation costs and dependency lock-ins) to do Linux in the non-Microsoft way. No idea what this is suppose to mean in this context, that we get new hardware stanards/tech like UEFI/GPT/secure boot or that people choose to use software like systemd?
  - blueflow 3y ago
    That these standards are written with the interests of Microsoft in mind. And that the only Linux-side implementation of them is systemd, where an Microsoft employee is the head maintainer. So if you want any of the new "features" you will need to have a linux/systemd/GPT/UEFI stack. Smells alot like embrace, extend. Extinguish comes next.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      First of all Linux distributions are the laggard, commercial UNIX systems have moved away from init before systemd was an idea. Secondly, Lennart Poettering became a Microsoft employee only recently, after all the systemd drama took place.
      - blueflow 3y ago
        launchd does none of the whacky bootloader stuff that systemd does. And Poettering didn't stop working on systemd, so you can estimate that Microsoft is not having a negative attitude towards his previous work.

I don't think they've extended Linux in any meaningful way. I'd say we're at Embrace phase at best.

by yura 3y ago

I don't think they've extended Linux in any meaningful way. I'd say we're at Embrace phase at best.

You might be right, the extend stage would be WSL and now they are "embracing" Linux. In that case, what would the extinguish stage be?

ranguna 3y ago
Linux GUI apps that only work from WSL.
FridgeSeal 3y ago
Hypothesising: - Some kind of MS branded Linux, that offers improved security/performance/usability etc. it’ll offer full compatibility with existing distros like Debian that devs are already familiar with, but it’ll come pre-setup on windows and it’ll have an amazing integration with GitHub, VSCode and azure, and probably their K8s product too. Much like VSCode they’ll use their influence to get devs used to using it. They’ll probably sponsor a bunch of major OSS projects to use it and start offering features specific to it, bits of it will be “open sourced soon” or similar. The position of power and control will be exerted over it-much the same way Google does with chrome and how that is “open source”. - a linux compatible api layer over windows, with the angle of “no reason to need Linux anymore”, they’ll angle for large enterprise customers first, offering a Linux-compatible experience, to convert them. Similar experience with above, where the end to end (local to cloud) experience will be the focus. Once again they’ll integrate with existing tooling and major OSS players with the same goal-be so seamless and tightly integrated, and “works with existing tools” that devs will flock to it the way they do with chrome. Orgs and projects will switch to supporting it, probably because the overall experience is superior. That’s a couple of ideas off the top of my head, we could probably all come with some more scenarios.
- isoprophlex 3y ago
  This is not good for my blood pressure

blueflow 3y ago

UEFI, GPT partitioning, verity boot and systemd on Linux have unexpected ties to Microsoft. The trend is that its becoming more and more difficult (due to reimplementation costs and dependency lock-ins) to do Linux in the non-Microsoft way. XDG, UKI and UAPI Standards are also written by people who are getting their paycheck from Microsoft.

0dayz 3y ago
>systemd When will this tired piece of shit known as FUD die. With that logic then the damn Linux kernel got "unexpected" ties to Microsoft. >The trend is that its becoming more and more difficult (due to reimplementation costs and dependency lock-ins) to do Linux in the non-Microsoft way. No idea what this is suppose to mean in this context, that we get new hardware stanards/tech like UEFI/GPT/secure boot or that people choose to use software like systemd?
- blueflow 3y ago
  That these standards are written with the interests of Microsoft in mind. And that the only Linux-side implementation of them is systemd, where an Microsoft employee is the head maintainer. So if you want any of the new "features" you will need to have a linux/systemd/GPT/UEFI stack. Smells alot like embrace, extend. Extinguish comes next.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    First of all Linux distributions are the laggard, commercial UNIX systems have moved away from init before systemd was an idea. Secondly, Lennart Poettering became a Microsoft employee only recently, after all the systemd drama took place.
    - blueflow 3y ago
      launchd does none of the whacky bootloader stuff that systemd does. And Poettering didn't stop working on systemd, so you can estimate that Microsoft is not having a negative attitude towards his previous work.