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The electric car industry is spinning alternatives. Hydrogen is a much better alternative all around. You'll be able to convert existing cars much easier.

micromacrofoot 3y ago
unfortunately no one's going to be converting existing cars to anything other than scrap metal no matter which technology proves to be the most promising
- henearkr 3y ago
  Well I agree with your other comment, but about this one, retrofitting (ICE->EV) is a thing. Even if very niche for now.
  - forgetfreeman 3y ago
    It is niche but growing less so by the day as conversion kits mature and more options make it onto market.
  - numpad0 3y ago
    Used Prius is always free and used Tesla is cheaper than a conversion. It never will make sense except for few classic cars.
  - micromacrofoot 3y ago
    With the way cars are built today it can be an endeavor to change a lightbulb, let alone the entire propulsion system.
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  Classic cars are much easier to convert to electric than hydrogen. I’m not even sure anyone would make a kit to do it. There’s just so much complexity with fuel cells.
thehappypm 3y ago
How is it better? It seems worse than electric by just about every measure
gtvwill 3y ago
Why would you want to? Existing cars suck to work on compared to an electric. Ice needs too many parts it's inefficient for moving vehicles. Legit ditch all that running gear and give me hub motors on suspension arms. That's it. Don't need anything else. Ice vehicles gonna get squeezed out by economics. Why pay some Muppet a few k to pull a block out to do gaskets when for little more than removing a Tyre I could replace the entire hub motor. Maybe a few hundred in labor compared to a few thousand. Hell for some car models like my subi I basically have to remove the entire front end or pull the block out just to do the head gaskets.
- ggreer 3y ago
  What EVs on the road today have hub motors? That unsprung mass would ruin handling. Also the motor could easily be damaged by hard bumps from potholes or curbs.
- zolbrek 3y ago
  >Ice vehicles gonna get squeezed out by economics You mean ICE vehicles are going to get squeezed out by regulations.
Smoosh 3y ago
It seems that the low efficiency when using hydrogen in an internal combustion engine, combined with it's low energy density, makes it unlikely to be viable for mainstream vehicles. https://evcentral.com.au/why-burning-hydrogen-in-an-ice-is-an-awful-idea/ https://evcentral.com.au/why-burning-hydrogen-in-an-ice-is-a...
- nuancebydefault 3y ago
  Thanks for sharing the clearly written article!
forgetfreeman 3y ago
Not sure who's pocket you're in but you need to get your facts straight. I can convert anything from a Model T to a modern vehicle from ICE to EV with nothing more complex than a conversion kit, and those come in flavors. Want to keep your original transmission and drive train? They make EV kits in a form factor to replace just the motor portion of a power train. Not married to having a stick shift? Toss the entire drive train, drop in a solid rear axle with hub motors. Fact is you can convert a vehicle from ICE to EV in a weekend and most of the work involves removing unnecessary deadweight.
beders 3y ago
What would "convert existing cars" get you? A BEV is so much simpler to build and maintain.
smileysteve 3y ago
The U.S. unlike the U.K. never adopted LPG or natural gas vehicles in any types of scale; That's with natural gas going directly to many houses. If LPG/Natural gas ice conversions had taken off in the 80s/90s THEN evidence would be more in Hydrogen's favor.
ggreer 3y ago
I doubt it would be economically feasible to convert existing cars to hydrogen. If you want to use a hydrogen fuel cell, you'd have to replace the gas engine with a hydrogen fuel cell and electric motor, then mate that to the existing transmission (though with an electric motor, things like a clutch and six gears wouldn't be very useful). Then you'd need another electric motor to run the accessory belt(s) for things like the power steering pump and the air conditioning compressor. If you want to warm the interior of the car, you'd have to replace the heater core with some sort of heat pump or resistive heating element. If you want to modify the gasoline engine to run on hydrogen, you'd need to replace the entire top end and many components in the bottom such as the connecting rods. You'd also need different spark plugs, a higher voltage ignition coil, different fuel injectors, a stronger head gasket, and a modified ECU. Burning hydrogen at stoichiometric ratios causes lots of nitric oxide, so you'd probably have to run lean to get emissions down. This means the engine won't be as powerful.[1] There are other modifications you'd have to do in either case. You'd have to replace the fuel tank with a hydrogen tank, replace the fuel lines, and replace the gas cap with a high pressure nozzle. Hydrogen is an odorless invisible gas, so you'd need to add some hydrogen sensors to the car to warn about leaks. After solving all of these problems, your car would have less range and fewer ways to refuel. 1. See page 25 of https://web.archive.org/web/20110905043908/http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/tech_validation/pdfs/fcm03r0.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20110905043908/http://www1.eere....

micromacrofoot 3y ago

unfortunately no one's going to be converting existing cars to anything other than scrap metal no matter which technology proves to be the most promising

henearkr 3y ago
Well I agree with your other comment, but about this one, retrofitting (ICE->EV) is a thing. Even if very niche for now.
- forgetfreeman 3y ago
  It is niche but growing less so by the day as conversion kits mature and more options make it onto market.
- numpad0 3y ago
  Used Prius is always free and used Tesla is cheaper than a conversion. It never will make sense except for few classic cars.
- micromacrofoot 3y ago
  With the way cars are built today it can be an endeavor to change a lightbulb, let alone the entire propulsion system.
throwaway5959 3y ago
Classic cars are much easier to convert to electric than hydrogen. I’m not even sure anyone would make a kit to do it. There’s just so much complexity with fuel cells.

thehappypm 3y ago

How is it better? It seems worse than electric by just about every measure

gtvwill 3y ago

Why would you want to? Existing cars suck to work on compared to an electric. Ice needs too many parts it's inefficient for moving vehicles. Legit ditch all that running gear and give me hub motors on suspension arms. That's it. Don't need anything else. Ice vehicles gonna get squeezed out by economics. Why pay some Muppet a few k to pull a block out to do gaskets when for little more than removing a Tyre I could replace the entire hub motor. Maybe a few hundred in labor compared to a few thousand. Hell for some car models like my subi I basically have to remove the entire front end or pull the block out just to do the head gaskets.

ggreer 3y ago
What EVs on the road today have hub motors? That unsprung mass would ruin handling. Also the motor could easily be damaged by hard bumps from potholes or curbs.
zolbrek 3y ago
>Ice vehicles gonna get squeezed out by economics You mean ICE vehicles are going to get squeezed out by regulations.

Smoosh 3y ago

It seems that the low efficiency when using hydrogen in an internal combustion engine, combined with it's low energy density, makes it unlikely to be viable for mainstream vehicles. https://evcentral.com.au/why-burning-hydrogen-in-an-ice-is-an-awful-idea/ https://evcentral.com.au/why-burning-hydrogen-in-an-ice-is-a...

nuancebydefault 3y ago
Thanks for sharing the clearly written article!

forgetfreeman 3y ago

Not sure who's pocket you're in but you need to get your facts straight. I can convert anything from a Model T to a modern vehicle from ICE to EV with nothing more complex than a conversion kit, and those come in flavors. Want to keep your original transmission and drive train? They make EV kits in a form factor to replace just the motor portion of a power train. Not married to having a stick shift? Toss the entire drive train, drop in a solid rear axle with hub motors. Fact is you can convert a vehicle from ICE to EV in a weekend and most of the work involves removing unnecessary deadweight.

beders 3y ago

What would "convert existing cars" get you? A BEV is so much simpler to build and maintain.

smileysteve 3y ago

The U.S. unlike the U.K. never adopted LPG or natural gas vehicles in any types of scale; That's with natural gas going directly to many houses. If LPG/Natural gas ice conversions had taken off in the 80s/90s THEN evidence would be more in Hydrogen's favor.

ggreer 3y ago

I doubt it would be economically feasible to convert existing cars to hydrogen. If you want to use a hydrogen fuel cell, you'd have to replace the gas engine with a hydrogen fuel cell and electric motor, then mate that to the existing transmission (though with an electric motor, things like a clutch and six gears wouldn't be very useful). Then you'd need another electric motor to run the accessory belt(s) for things like the power steering pump and the air conditioning compressor. If you want to warm the interior of the car, you'd have to replace the heater core with some sort of heat pump or resistive heating element. If you want to modify the gasoline engine to run on hydrogen, you'd need to replace the entire top end and many components in the bottom such as the connecting rods. You'd also need different spark plugs, a higher voltage ignition coil, different fuel injectors, a stronger head gasket, and a modified ECU. Burning hydrogen at stoichiometric ratios causes lots of nitric oxide, so you'd probably have to run lean to get emissions down. This means the engine won't be as powerful.[1] There are other modifications you'd have to do in either case. You'd have to replace the fuel tank with a hydrogen tank, replace the fuel lines, and replace the gas cap with a high pressure nozzle. Hydrogen is an odorless invisible gas, so you'd need to add some hydrogen sensors to the car to warn about leaks. After solving all of these problems, your car would have less range and fewer ways to refuel. 1. See page 25 of https://web.archive.org/web/20110905043908/http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/tech_validation/pdfs/fcm03r0.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20110905043908/http://www1.eere....