4 ms·

Should be labelled (2013). Would be nice if I didn't have to say that; in so many ways the bloom is off the rose of my (admittedly high paying) corporate job.

Should be labelled (2013). Would be nice if I didn't have to say that; in so many ways the bloom is off the rose of my (admittedly high paying) corporate job. I even recently reunited with some old friends who chose a more independent career path, and was jealous and nostalgic- they're definitely working far closer to their passions with more freedom than I've felt in a decade. But man, what a decade since 2013. I would be foolish to dismiss that I had stable employment through Covid, and I still have a paycheck through the current economic turmoil. I also have my corporate health insurance, which covers my stupidly expensive regular medication which I had no idea I would need in those nostalgic days when these friends chose their alternative careers (I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease in 2015, now in remission thanks to the meds) So I agree with the sentiment that it's dangerous (especially to your soul) to just blindly conform and follow the money, but it's not always unjustified. In my case it was at least a little bit justified, since my parents were more or less broke and I didn't have a safety net. I do wish I had hedged my bets better and been less of a workaholic, of course. Would be nice to be married now.

saganus 3y ago
Along those lines, one of the things that I still struggle with after 20+ years of working, is squaring this feeling of not working enough/earn enough money to have a comfortable retirement, while at the same time trying to live my life and not just work myself until death (very original, I know). So I've always had this conflict with the saying that goes something like "nobody regrets not working more, while in their deathbed". The thing is... I'm pretty sure lots of people actually do, e.g. if they didn't manage to do well enough to have a comfortable retirement, or leave their children in a good place. So sure, I'd love to spend my money traveling and enjoying the best years of my life... but I also see my parents struggling to get by with retirement funds that are suboptimal and I fear that I am not doing all I can to avoid the same fate. Hopefully I'll be able to make sense of this before it's too late.
- danielmarkbruce 3y ago
  fwiw i think more people struggle with this tradeoff than it seems, and more people question the "nobody regrets... " quote. You are far from alone.
- Swizec 3y ago
  Few people regret not working more. Almost everyone regrets not having achieved more.
  - KronisLV 3y ago
    > Few people regret not working more. For what it's worth, working more would build a habit of doing so. A good work ethic would mean that you need a bit less motivation or discipline to get things done, due to it basically being just something you do. It doesn't have to be just for some corporation, but also when you're trying to build some personal project, especially the ones that might get a bit bigger (writing your own blog engine or static site generator, maybe even a game engine, or planting crops or building a shed for all I care). Sometimes there won't be many shortcuts to success, but just boring slog of legwork that needs to be done. In that regard, I definitely regret not working more, because I still need to rely on motivation, which is fleeting, or discipline, which is unpleasant, all just to get through things sometimes, even when I take care of myself in every other way (sleep schedule, nutrition, activities, mental health). As for the whole retirement aspect, sadly I don't have answers for that, the state of the economy is concerning sometimes.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    Eh you gotta curb your expectations with 8 billion people alive trying to out-achieve you every single moment.
    - achenet 3y ago
      it's not a zero sum game or a competition though. You can make beautiful music, and someone else can create a beautiful choreography for it... their achievement will probably increase your joy, not decrease it.
      - moffkalast 3y ago
        To some degree yes, but after a while there are so many creators that it's just noise and nobody can really stand out unless they're truly beyond exceptional. So in that sense it is more of a zero sum game in practice. Take Steam for example. After Greenlight was superseded by Direct and you now only need $100 to get on the platform it's practically drowning in games, making for near zero discoverability. But especially in terms of idk, government jobs or certain positions at a specific company it's usually a fixed number of seats that will be filled from a large pool of people, making it a completely zero sum game. There can only be one president of a country at a time and a fixed number of them during your lifespan. What are you gonna do, make a new country?
- scns 3y ago
  Read this in a management magazine: One third of retiring managers die quickly thereafter. The socond third finds a hobby and pursues it with the same ambition until everyone they know got gifted a perfect ship in a bottle and they need a new way to spend their time. One third keeps working. [Edit] add header
  - hosteur 3y ago
    That’s just sad.
    - scns 3y ago
      That is a judgment on your part. There is no retirement in nature. If you keep doing what you love when you are "retired", it will be to your benefit. Both my parents teach, my father does something he likes for the first time i think. Could call it sad but why?
      - ornornor 3y ago
        Obviously some professions like teaching, medicine, and a few others are different because they actually benefit society. As opposed to middle managers in a megacorp only working hard to make anonymous shareholders richer. When that guy is gone, they’ll be replaced within a couple of weeks and forgotten as they were just a cog. That’s when it’s sad to keep working imho.
- didibus 3y ago
  I normally heard "nobody regrets not working more" in the context of work that has bad or no ROI. For example, lots of people work themselves to burnout by not taking all their vacations, returning to work very soon after their child is born out of fear of falling behind, working extra late or weekends from peer pressure from their boss/peers, etc. Most of which won't result in additional pay, promotion, and might not even help advance your career. There's this other addage I heard that I quite like: "Work harder on yourself than at your job. Invest in yourself, not in your job." The idea is, don't spend your energy on your current job stupidly, instead spend that effort trying to find a better job, or learning skills that are more valuable, in keeping yourself relevant, etc. I feel taken together, it forms the basis of how to balance work/life so that work can build up to a good retirement, allowing you to enjoy life in your later years, but also making time in the present to enjoy life in your current and younger years.
  - saganus 3y ago
    That definitely makes sense. However I do have heard it in the context of "hey, enjoy life more!". Which I agree with but it's also a reality that you need to think about your future/retirement and it's a hard balance to make, especially if you live in a country with a poor healthcare system and lacking other social nets.
Hendrikto 3y ago
> Would be nice to be married now. While the idea and ideal are nice, it often does not work out that way in practice. Lots and lots of unhappy marriages and divorces.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  I find this to not be a helpful frame of thinking. A divorce is not a random natural disaster that befalls you. You have a lot of control about who you end up with, who you are inside and how you engage with your partner. So the fact that divorce happens "often" or "rarely" doesn't matter to an individual scenario - it's completely within those people's controls to make good or bad decisions.
  - freetanga 3y ago
    I understand your point, agree to it somewhat, but I think is a bit unfair and simplistic. People have externalities thrown at them (loss, grieve, missed expectations, sickness, depression,…) Is a bit arrogant to think a person or a couple can navigate all these via their own choices. Reminds me of my hardcore catholic friends who think that divorcing equals to low commitment, willpower or maturity.
    - xyzelement 3y ago
      I appreciate what you are saying and I think we're mainly in agreement. You can't eliminate all risk and you can't guarantee success but you have a lot of ways to influence the outcome. Using your example of depression. If you marry someone manic/depressive because you love how crazy and wild she is on her up days, her down days are going to hit you hard when you're living in the same house and sharing kids and responsibilities. So maybe that dynamic has a 50% divorce rate which could have been anticipated way in advance. On the other hand, there's always a chance that someone stable you marry will get into a deep funk years down the line and you won't be able to help her manage through that, but that maybe is a 2% probably. You can't control that 2% but you can manage to not be in the 50% and that's where your focus should be.
  - 3y ago
xyzelement 3y ago
// I do wish I had hedged my bets better and been less of a workaholic, of course. Would be nice to be married now. I hear you and maybe a word of caution - sometimes "I don't have X because I was too busy with Y" is a way to sweep the complexity/ambivalence of X under the rug. After all, plenty of very busy and hard working people get married, and I doubt that it's very often "I am dying to go meet this woman but I am going to sit in the office instead" type tradeoff that's being made.
- em-bee 3y ago
  that's a good point. not finding a partner is not because of to much work, but because of not thinking about finding a partner. which i think can also be interpreted as: if you didn't think about finding a partner, then maybe you weren't ready to get married. but you are ready now, because now you know why you want a partner, and now you can look for the right kind of person.

saganus 3y ago

Along those lines, one of the things that I still struggle with after 20+ years of working, is squaring this feeling of not working enough/earn enough money to have a comfortable retirement, while at the same time trying to live my life and not just work myself until death (very original, I know). So I've always had this conflict with the saying that goes something like "nobody regrets not working more, while in their deathbed". The thing is... I'm pretty sure lots of people actually do, e.g. if they didn't manage to do well enough to have a comfortable retirement, or leave their children in a good place. So sure, I'd love to spend my money traveling and enjoying the best years of my life... but I also see my parents struggling to get by with retirement funds that are suboptimal and I fear that I am not doing all I can to avoid the same fate. Hopefully I'll be able to make sense of this before it's too late.

danielmarkbruce 3y ago
fwiw i think more people struggle with this tradeoff than it seems, and more people question the "nobody regrets... " quote. You are far from alone.
Swizec 3y ago
Few people regret not working more. Almost everyone regrets not having achieved more.
- KronisLV 3y ago
  > Few people regret not working more. For what it's worth, working more would build a habit of doing so. A good work ethic would mean that you need a bit less motivation or discipline to get things done, due to it basically being just something you do. It doesn't have to be just for some corporation, but also when you're trying to build some personal project, especially the ones that might get a bit bigger (writing your own blog engine or static site generator, maybe even a game engine, or planting crops or building a shed for all I care). Sometimes there won't be many shortcuts to success, but just boring slog of legwork that needs to be done. In that regard, I definitely regret not working more, because I still need to rely on motivation, which is fleeting, or discipline, which is unpleasant, all just to get through things sometimes, even when I take care of myself in every other way (sleep schedule, nutrition, activities, mental health). As for the whole retirement aspect, sadly I don't have answers for that, the state of the economy is concerning sometimes.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  Eh you gotta curb your expectations with 8 billion people alive trying to out-achieve you every single moment.
  - achenet 3y ago
    it's not a zero sum game or a competition though. You can make beautiful music, and someone else can create a beautiful choreography for it... their achievement will probably increase your joy, not decrease it.
    - moffkalast 3y ago
      To some degree yes, but after a while there are so many creators that it's just noise and nobody can really stand out unless they're truly beyond exceptional. So in that sense it is more of a zero sum game in practice. Take Steam for example. After Greenlight was superseded by Direct and you now only need $100 to get on the platform it's practically drowning in games, making for near zero discoverability. But especially in terms of idk, government jobs or certain positions at a specific company it's usually a fixed number of seats that will be filled from a large pool of people, making it a completely zero sum game. There can only be one president of a country at a time and a fixed number of them during your lifespan. What are you gonna do, make a new country?
scns 3y ago
Read this in a management magazine: One third of retiring managers die quickly thereafter. The socond third finds a hobby and pursues it with the same ambition until everyone they know got gifted a perfect ship in a bottle and they need a new way to spend their time. One third keeps working. [Edit] add header
- hosteur 3y ago
  That’s just sad.
  - scns 3y ago
    That is a judgment on your part. There is no retirement in nature. If you keep doing what you love when you are "retired", it will be to your benefit. Both my parents teach, my father does something he likes for the first time i think. Could call it sad but why?
    - ornornor 3y ago
      Obviously some professions like teaching, medicine, and a few others are different because they actually benefit society. As opposed to middle managers in a megacorp only working hard to make anonymous shareholders richer. When that guy is gone, they’ll be replaced within a couple of weeks and forgotten as they were just a cog. That’s when it’s sad to keep working imho.
didibus 3y ago
I normally heard "nobody regrets not working more" in the context of work that has bad or no ROI. For example, lots of people work themselves to burnout by not taking all their vacations, returning to work very soon after their child is born out of fear of falling behind, working extra late or weekends from peer pressure from their boss/peers, etc. Most of which won't result in additional pay, promotion, and might not even help advance your career. There's this other addage I heard that I quite like: "Work harder on yourself than at your job. Invest in yourself, not in your job." The idea is, don't spend your energy on your current job stupidly, instead spend that effort trying to find a better job, or learning skills that are more valuable, in keeping yourself relevant, etc. I feel taken together, it forms the basis of how to balance work/life so that work can build up to a good retirement, allowing you to enjoy life in your later years, but also making time in the present to enjoy life in your current and younger years.
- saganus 3y ago
  That definitely makes sense. However I do have heard it in the context of "hey, enjoy life more!". Which I agree with but it's also a reality that you need to think about your future/retirement and it's a hard balance to make, especially if you live in a country with a poor healthcare system and lacking other social nets.

Hendrikto 3y ago

> Would be nice to be married now. While the idea and ideal are nice, it often does not work out that way in practice. Lots and lots of unhappy marriages and divorces.

xyzelement 3y ago
I find this to not be a helpful frame of thinking. A divorce is not a random natural disaster that befalls you. You have a lot of control about who you end up with, who you are inside and how you engage with your partner. So the fact that divorce happens "often" or "rarely" doesn't matter to an individual scenario - it's completely within those people's controls to make good or bad decisions.
- freetanga 3y ago
  I understand your point, agree to it somewhat, but I think is a bit unfair and simplistic. People have externalities thrown at them (loss, grieve, missed expectations, sickness, depression,…) Is a bit arrogant to think a person or a couple can navigate all these via their own choices. Reminds me of my hardcore catholic friends who think that divorcing equals to low commitment, willpower or maturity.
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    I appreciate what you are saying and I think we're mainly in agreement. You can't eliminate all risk and you can't guarantee success but you have a lot of ways to influence the outcome. Using your example of depression. If you marry someone manic/depressive because you love how crazy and wild she is on her up days, her down days are going to hit you hard when you're living in the same house and sharing kids and responsibilities. So maybe that dynamic has a 50% divorce rate which could have been anticipated way in advance. On the other hand, there's always a chance that someone stable you marry will get into a deep funk years down the line and you won't be able to help her manage through that, but that maybe is a 2% probably. You can't control that 2% but you can manage to not be in the 50% and that's where your focus should be.
- 3y ago

xyzelement 3y ago

// I do wish I had hedged my bets better and been less of a workaholic, of course. Would be nice to be married now. I hear you and maybe a word of caution - sometimes "I don't have X because I was too busy with Y" is a way to sweep the complexity/ambivalence of X under the rug. After all, plenty of very busy and hard working people get married, and I doubt that it's very often "I am dying to go meet this woman but I am going to sit in the office instead" type tradeoff that's being made.

em-bee 3y ago
that's a good point. not finding a partner is not because of to much work, but because of not thinking about finding a partner. which i think can also be interpreted as: if you didn't think about finding a partner, then maybe you weren't ready to get married. but you are ready now, because now you know why you want a partner, and now you can look for the right kind of person.