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Sorry but there is a link between pornography and sexual violence. See the litterature review here: https://psyarxiv.com/cw24q/download/?format=pdf https://psy

Sorry but there is a link between pornography and sexual violence. See the litterature review here: https://psyarxiv.com/cw24q/download/?format=pdf https://psyarxiv.com/cw24q/download/?format=pdf Or here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081698/ "Lifetime pornography use was reported by most respondents. After adjusting for age, age at first porn exposure, and current relationship status, the associations between pornography use and sexual behaviors was statistically significant" Also, "people are born gay" is quack science. If it's true, what else are people "born" into? Yes, sexual suggestion exists, either through social circles, or through culture, or advertising. Alternative sexual behaviors have exploded since porn went mainstream - did we experience a major genetic change? Anyway, just like you can entice people to smoke by showing Marylin Monroe smoking on the screen, you can entice people to develop an taste for pedophilia by showing them enticing CSAM. And because the consequences of pedophilia are one of the worst things for society, CSAM is forbiden.

tommica 3y ago
But isn't "enticing" in the eye of the beholder? Or is it something that is hard-coded into our brains? If former, then your argument is invalid, if latter, then better jail us all.
- Kretinsky 3y ago
  Evolution has made men excited at the sight of sexual material. The hormonal flow creates a lot of pleasure and a positive reinforcement loop associated with habituation. This is why porn tends to produce ever more harcore content, to satisfy the ever increasing cravings of the watchers. Just look at a 70's porn movie and the average one today. Much more enticing and hardcore. As a result, allowing people to develop a taste for CSAM is pandora's box we shouldn't open.
  - Jigsy 3y ago
    You do realize that countries (Denmark, Sweden, etc.) used to legally make CSEM back in the 70s, right?
    - Kretinsky 3y ago
      [dead]
btilly 3y ago
Sorry, but that's crap. Your first article is not so much a "literature review" like you claim as an article claiming that the following theories imply the following conclusion without any data of their own supporting that conclusion. The strongest result was that cultures which normalize violence against women also normalize sexual violence against women. Yes, we can change how people behave towards their objects of sexual interest. We don't change who they are interested in when we do. Your second article is an example of what I discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37718038 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37718038. It proves a correlation between being interested in both porn and sexual activity. It does not show causation. The result is exactly what we should expect if people come wired with certain interests, and therefore does not qualify as evidence for or against those theories. On "people are born gay" being quack science, we literally are discovering the genetic linkages to being gay. https://theconversation.com/stop-calling-it-a-choice-biological-factors-drive-homosexuality-122764 https://theconversation.com/stop-calling-it-a-choice-biologi... We're also finding factors that set sexual orientation in the womb, independent of culture. https://www.thehastingscenter.org/womb-gay/ https://www.thehastingscenter.org/womb-gay/ Since porn went mainstream, and acceptance of homosexuality went up, we've seen more openness to teenage experimentation. But do you know what we haven't seen? We haven't seen a significant shift in adults that claim that they are gay in polls. Research on pedophilia is harder to do, but I doubt that has changed either. In short the thing that, based on available evidence, actually is quack science is your claim that, "Anyway, just like you can entice people to smoke by showing Marylin Monroe smoking on the screen, you can entice people to develop an taste for pedophilia by showing them enticing CSAM." We have zero data supporting such a conclusion.
- Kretinsky 3y ago
  Of course we have data. You can't brush it off with "correlation =/= causation". Why? Specific practices invented by porn are now mainstream among people who watch porn. This is a prime example of causation. Facial ejaculation didn't exist 100 years ago, even in France, which was Europe's prostitution capital. Now it's mainstream (see study). Why? Porn culture infused the sexual culture. > we literally are discovering the genetic linkages to being gay Well you should have read your article, which says: "With multiple gene candidates being linked to homosexuality, it seemed highly unlikely that a single “gay” gene exists." Intelligence is determined at 80% by genetics, and polygenic. All of this says that there can be a predisposition toward homosexual tendencies ("gay" is related to american homosexual culture and is a prime example of cultural imperialism), however no one is "born" homosexual. Some people with the related genes may end up becoming so, others may mary women, some may just remain alone. This is a strange, calvinist projection on human existence. Would you say that people are born criminal too? There are genes for this as well. Or let's talk about race? So yeah, sorry, this is quack science. > we've seen more openness to teenage experimentation This sounds really like what an enabler would say to help sexual predators targeting young people. Teen years are not a good time to "experiment" too much things in sexuality (doesn't mean it's not possible to have sex), as consequences are long-lasting and they are very easily influenced and vulnerable. > We haven't seen a significant shift in adults that claim that they are gay in polls. Given that "gay" is the number one thing being advertised and promoted in the US lately, especially at the vulnerable youth, yes that's not very surprising. But I think we're past self-determination now anyway, and more in some kind of weird propaganda. Same goes with transgenderism, with devastating effects (castration of fertile people among others). The US has also currently a mental health crisis, with no sign of stopping, so "data" currently shows that your remedy is either ineffective, or destructive. Anyway, I'm not suprised here to see the crossroads between gay, porn and pedophilia. The connection is documented and quite old actually: https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J082v13n02_08 https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.13... All of this disgusting thread makes me pretty happy to live away from the US to be honest.

tommica 3y ago

But isn't "enticing" in the eye of the beholder? Or is it something that is hard-coded into our brains? If former, then your argument is invalid, if latter, then better jail us all.

Kretinsky 3y ago
Evolution has made men excited at the sight of sexual material. The hormonal flow creates a lot of pleasure and a positive reinforcement loop associated with habituation. This is why porn tends to produce ever more harcore content, to satisfy the ever increasing cravings of the watchers. Just look at a 70's porn movie and the average one today. Much more enticing and hardcore. As a result, allowing people to develop a taste for CSAM is pandora's box we shouldn't open.
- Jigsy 3y ago
  You do realize that countries (Denmark, Sweden, etc.) used to legally make CSEM back in the 70s, right?
  - Kretinsky 3y ago
    [dead]

btilly 3y ago

Sorry, but that's crap. Your first article is not so much a "literature review" like you claim as an article claiming that the following theories imply the following conclusion without any data of their own supporting that conclusion. The strongest result was that cultures which normalize violence against women also normalize sexual violence against women. Yes, we can change how people behave towards their objects of sexual interest. We don't change who they are interested in when we do. Your second article is an example of what I discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37718038 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37718038. It proves a correlation between being interested in both porn and sexual activity. It does not show causation. The result is exactly what we should expect if people come wired with certain interests, and therefore does not qualify as evidence for or against those theories. On "people are born gay" being quack science, we literally are discovering the genetic linkages to being gay. https://theconversation.com/stop-calling-it-a-choice-biological-factors-drive-homosexuality-122764 https://theconversation.com/stop-calling-it-a-choice-biologi... We're also finding factors that set sexual orientation in the womb, independent of culture. https://www.thehastingscenter.org/womb-gay/ https://www.thehastingscenter.org/womb-gay/ Since porn went mainstream, and acceptance of homosexuality went up, we've seen more openness to teenage experimentation. But do you know what we haven't seen? We haven't seen a significant shift in adults that claim that they are gay in polls. Research on pedophilia is harder to do, but I doubt that has changed either. In short the thing that, based on available evidence, actually is quack science is your claim that, "Anyway, just like you can entice people to smoke by showing Marylin Monroe smoking on the screen, you can entice people to develop an taste for pedophilia by showing them enticing CSAM." We have zero data supporting such a conclusion.

Kretinsky 3y ago
Of course we have data. You can't brush it off with "correlation =/= causation". Why? Specific practices invented by porn are now mainstream among people who watch porn. This is a prime example of causation. Facial ejaculation didn't exist 100 years ago, even in France, which was Europe's prostitution capital. Now it's mainstream (see study). Why? Porn culture infused the sexual culture. > we literally are discovering the genetic linkages to being gay Well you should have read your article, which says: "With multiple gene candidates being linked to homosexuality, it seemed highly unlikely that a single “gay” gene exists." Intelligence is determined at 80% by genetics, and polygenic. All of this says that there can be a predisposition toward homosexual tendencies ("gay" is related to american homosexual culture and is a prime example of cultural imperialism), however no one is "born" homosexual. Some people with the related genes may end up becoming so, others may mary women, some may just remain alone. This is a strange, calvinist projection on human existence. Would you say that people are born criminal too? There are genes for this as well. Or let's talk about race? So yeah, sorry, this is quack science. > we've seen more openness to teenage experimentation This sounds really like what an enabler would say to help sexual predators targeting young people. Teen years are not a good time to "experiment" too much things in sexuality (doesn't mean it's not possible to have sex), as consequences are long-lasting and they are very easily influenced and vulnerable. > We haven't seen a significant shift in adults that claim that they are gay in polls. Given that "gay" is the number one thing being advertised and promoted in the US lately, especially at the vulnerable youth, yes that's not very surprising. But I think we're past self-determination now anyway, and more in some kind of weird propaganda. Same goes with transgenderism, with devastating effects (castration of fertile people among others). The US has also currently a mental health crisis, with no sign of stopping, so "data" currently shows that your remedy is either ineffective, or destructive. Anyway, I'm not suprised here to see the crossroads between gay, porn and pedophilia. The connection is documented and quite old actually: https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J082v13n02_08 https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.13... All of this disgusting thread makes me pretty happy to live away from the US to be honest.