6 ms·

Perhaps I went into this series with unrealistic expectations but I found it pretty disappointing. Same for Rothfuss. There is a huge volume of older fantasy no

Perhaps I went into this series with unrealistic expectations but I found it pretty disappointing. Same for Rothfuss. There is a huge volume of older fantasy novels that are a much better investment of time, IMO.

cageface 3y ago
Which are your favorites?
- bellgrove 3y ago
  I really loved the Gormenghast series. Worm Ouroboros. Gloriana and the Elric saga by Moorcock.
havblue 3y ago
I think pillars of the earth and name of the wind were both entertaining but I was somewhat annoyed by both of their villains who just try too hard to make the reader hate them. We get it. The bad guy is evil.
- TylerE 3y ago
  That's the other thing I don't like about Sanderson. Shades of grey is so much more interesting than black and white.
  - someuser2345 3y ago
    Sanderson's villains do have their own shades of grey, even if it isn't quite as emphasized as in GRRM's books. The villain of the first Mistborn book was genuinely trying to keep the world safe; he was just terrible at it, and he had an evil god whispering in his ear for a thousand years. The Parshendi are first shown as just villains, but later books show their side of the story and they become far more sympathetic.
    - jamesgeck0 3y ago
      Yep, there's also a major character who has been pulling strings behind the scenes in about ten different books across various series. How good or bad they are depends on how closely their aims happen to align with the goals of the main protagonists of the story. Although it's really easy to miss; presently this is mostly easter eggs for sharp-eyed readers. IIRC Sanderson has stated that he's trying to set up a Star Trek type setting. He's developing all these different cultures with different values, and eventually they're going to become space-faring and come into conflict with each other over their different priorities.
wiredfool 3y ago
I bounced off of one of the early Stormlight books, maybe Way of Kings. Doesn’t mean it’s bad or others won’t find it rewarding. Sanderson rewards readers who are looking for world building and the reveal of the way things work. I liked the first Mistborn trilogy, but couldn’t get into the later ones. For recent large scale fiction that’s also not going to work for everyone, I really liked the Terra Ignota series. (But, if the warnings and the first chapter put you off, you’re not going to like it)
TylerE 3y ago
What kills Sanderson for me is the dialog. Real people don't talk like a Mormon sunday school teacher. No warrior on a field of battle is going to yell "oh butterfingers!" in the middle of a battle.
- mholm 3y ago
  Characters in general for Sanderson books tend to feel like Sanderson picked one trait, and something 'surprising', and made that their whole personality. Then he builds from there. They eventually become complex characters but for awhile after their introductions they feel like a cardboard cutout. And of course the characters still feel much more puritan and sterile than I would prefer.
- Josteniok 3y ago
  I don't think he is super great at dialog, either, but I like how his cursing is world-specific rather than just reusing what we think of as cursing in our world. He has quite a bit of it in Stormlight Archives (see: https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7204-swearing-in-roshar/ https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7204-swearing-in-rosha...) but it doesn't "offend" us here in our world because it is specific to their world.
  - Grimburger 3y ago
    It's the ultimate giveaway in the cosmere when someone curses with a different word than used locally, is the sure sign they are far more powerful than they seem.
  - huthuthike 3y ago
    That's kind of a high fantasy trope. "Blood and ashes!" from Wheel of Time comes to mind. It's like how they like to use different measures of time and distance. "It took him a fortnight to travel all those leagues." Helps take you out of the real world.
    - Grimburger 3y ago
      > "Blood and ashes!" from Wheel of Time comes to mind Probably fair to note that Sanderson wrote a bunch of those books to finish up the series after the author died and at his estates request?
Grimburger 3y ago
It took me three times over a few years to even finish The Way of Kings despite liking his other books, it's definitely a rough beginning but am basically hooked at this point.
- livueta 3y ago
  That's a really interesting perspective to read because I feel almost exactly the opposite: liked TWoK and have been progressively disenchanted with each subsequent book. TWoK reminds me of the (Mirror-Moon TL of the) original F/SN VN in that the author/TL being bad at realistic characterization actually enhances the experience. F/SN Shirou and TWoK Kaladin are both weird broken robots with warped perspectives, and exposing the reader to an exhaustive amount of the (creative and surprisingly involved) setting, both mundane and horrific, through those perspectives is actually pretty interesting in a literary way and ascends above what could otherwise have been just plain bad writing. Other posts in this thread have referenced the development of Kaladin's character through the arc of the plot, and I think that's what lost me. "Fixed" Kaladin is an uncanny-valley imitation of a fleshed-out character; "broken" Kaladin is, intentionally or unintentionally, a lot more fun. I found myself actively disliking many of Sanderson's attempts at expanding his characterization, especially in RoW.

cageface 3y ago

Which are your favorites?

bellgrove 3y ago
I really loved the Gormenghast series. Worm Ouroboros. Gloriana and the Elric saga by Moorcock.

havblue 3y ago

I think pillars of the earth and name of the wind were both entertaining but I was somewhat annoyed by both of their villains who just try too hard to make the reader hate them. We get it. The bad guy is evil.

TylerE 3y ago
That's the other thing I don't like about Sanderson. Shades of grey is so much more interesting than black and white.
- someuser2345 3y ago
  Sanderson's villains do have their own shades of grey, even if it isn't quite as emphasized as in GRRM's books. The villain of the first Mistborn book was genuinely trying to keep the world safe; he was just terrible at it, and he had an evil god whispering in his ear for a thousand years. The Parshendi are first shown as just villains, but later books show their side of the story and they become far more sympathetic.
  - jamesgeck0 3y ago
    Yep, there's also a major character who has been pulling strings behind the scenes in about ten different books across various series. How good or bad they are depends on how closely their aims happen to align with the goals of the main protagonists of the story. Although it's really easy to miss; presently this is mostly easter eggs for sharp-eyed readers. IIRC Sanderson has stated that he's trying to set up a Star Trek type setting. He's developing all these different cultures with different values, and eventually they're going to become space-faring and come into conflict with each other over their different priorities.

wiredfool 3y ago

I bounced off of one of the early Stormlight books, maybe Way of Kings. Doesn’t mean it’s bad or others won’t find it rewarding. Sanderson rewards readers who are looking for world building and the reveal of the way things work. I liked the first Mistborn trilogy, but couldn’t get into the later ones. For recent large scale fiction that’s also not going to work for everyone, I really liked the Terra Ignota series. (But, if the warnings and the first chapter put you off, you’re not going to like it)

TylerE 3y ago

What kills Sanderson for me is the dialog. Real people don't talk like a Mormon sunday school teacher. No warrior on a field of battle is going to yell "oh butterfingers!" in the middle of a battle.

mholm 3y ago
Characters in general for Sanderson books tend to feel like Sanderson picked one trait, and something 'surprising', and made that their whole personality. Then he builds from there. They eventually become complex characters but for awhile after their introductions they feel like a cardboard cutout. And of course the characters still feel much more puritan and sterile than I would prefer.
Josteniok 3y ago
I don't think he is super great at dialog, either, but I like how his cursing is world-specific rather than just reusing what we think of as cursing in our world. He has quite a bit of it in Stormlight Archives (see: https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7204-swearing-in-roshar/ https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7204-swearing-in-rosha...) but it doesn't "offend" us here in our world because it is specific to their world.
- Grimburger 3y ago
  It's the ultimate giveaway in the cosmere when someone curses with a different word than used locally, is the sure sign they are far more powerful than they seem.
- huthuthike 3y ago
  That's kind of a high fantasy trope. "Blood and ashes!" from Wheel of Time comes to mind. It's like how they like to use different measures of time and distance. "It took him a fortnight to travel all those leagues." Helps take you out of the real world.
  - Grimburger 3y ago
    > "Blood and ashes!" from Wheel of Time comes to mind Probably fair to note that Sanderson wrote a bunch of those books to finish up the series after the author died and at his estates request?

Grimburger 3y ago

It took me three times over a few years to even finish The Way of Kings despite liking his other books, it's definitely a rough beginning but am basically hooked at this point.

livueta 3y ago
That's a really interesting perspective to read because I feel almost exactly the opposite: liked TWoK and have been progressively disenchanted with each subsequent book. TWoK reminds me of the (Mirror-Moon TL of the) original F/SN VN in that the author/TL being bad at realistic characterization actually enhances the experience. F/SN Shirou and TWoK Kaladin are both weird broken robots with warped perspectives, and exposing the reader to an exhaustive amount of the (creative and surprisingly involved) setting, both mundane and horrific, through those perspectives is actually pretty interesting in a literary way and ascends above what could otherwise have been just plain bad writing. Other posts in this thread have referenced the development of Kaladin's character through the arc of the plot, and I think that's what lost me. "Fixed" Kaladin is an uncanny-valley imitation of a fleshed-out character; "broken" Kaladin is, intentionally or unintentionally, a lot more fun. I found myself actively disliking many of Sanderson's attempts at expanding his characterization, especially in RoW.