6 ms·

On the other hand, if projects like this, as a side effect, increase the number of relays, and normalize using Tor, it's a win for everyone. Quiet should pay fo

On the other hand, if projects like this, as a side effect, increase the number of relays, and normalize using Tor, it's a win for everyone. Quiet should pay for a few servers to be used as relays and exit nodes, and also encourage users to do so, or to donate to that.

chx 3y ago
> normalize using Tor, Yeah that will not happen. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36906900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36906900
- anon____ 3y ago
  What do you mean by that?
  - madamelic 3y ago
    You don't get to choose what flows through your exit node. It could be a Chinese dissident, it could be someone accessing a child porn forum. When authorities go to track down the IP that sent requests to another, your IP will be the one listed on that request with no ability to trace back what IP actually sent the request so it will be difficult to not pin you for whatever was accessed.
    - anon____ 3y ago
      This is true and already reality, no need for hypotheticals. There are exit nodes serving child porn right now, yet, the operators are not prosecuted. The child porn traffickers and other problematic users are all on Tor already. With the growing number of users their proportion will only decline.
      - chx 3y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36837273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36837273 are you sure they are not prosecuted
      - chx 3y ago
        > With the growing number of users their proportion will only decline. [citation needed]
        anon____ 3y ago
        My only assumption that would need citation (that I cannot give, I admit) is that currently the proportion of shady users is much higher on Tor than on the general Internet. From here, it's pure and simple logic: as more users transition to Tor (asymptotically all of them), this proportion can only decrease.
        chx 3y ago
        1. there's no clear indication whether the Tor userbase grows. Indeed, I would suspect the constant mobile is a hindrance 2. There's no clear indication in which direction the online CP people grow. They can be more or less over time. I am unaware of any studies because it's obviously extremely hard to measure.
    - LinuxBender 3y ago
      You don't get to choose what flows through your exit node. This is why it is important to bookmark ExoneraTor [1] so that one can prove the IP in question is/was a Tor exit node accepting that it would still be a PITA to deal with boots-on-neck and legal fallout. That said one could block some of the known illegal sites via DNS and IP null routing on the exit node at the risk of the Tor network flagging it as a malicious exit node. [1] - https://support.torproject.org/glossary/exonerator/ https://support.torproject.org/glossary/exonerator/
- hiatus 3y ago
  How do exit nodes factor in? This seems to operate like hidden services thus no exit nodes needed.
  - holmesworcester 3y ago
    (Quiet dev here.) Correct. Quiet traffic does not use Tor exit nodes, though we might use them someday, e.g. for fetching preview metadata when you post a link.
  - chx 3y ago
    This was a comment about the general normalization of Tor.
    - hiatus 3y ago
      A broadly used application that requires tor for everyday use would be beneficial for the general normalization of tor. How would many people using quiet be anything but a step in the direction of general normalization of tor?
holmesworcester 3y ago
(Quiet founder here) We already support Tor financially and will probably also run relays someday! Quiet is a founding member of Tor's Onion Services Resource Coalition, which started in response to last year's DDoS against the Tor network, which affected onion service connection times. Alongside a small circle of other affected products we helped Tor raise enough to hire ~2 full-time engineers to work on onion service reliability, which had been a bit underfunded because onion services only represent a small share of Tor's existing usage. See: https://blog.torproject.org/tor-network-ddos-attack/ https://blog.torproject.org/tor-network-ddos-attack/
- anon____ 3y ago
  Thanks for addressing this, this is great to hear!

chx 3y ago

> normalize using Tor, Yeah that will not happen. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36906900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36906900

anon____ 3y ago
What do you mean by that?
- madamelic 3y ago
  You don't get to choose what flows through your exit node. It could be a Chinese dissident, it could be someone accessing a child porn forum. When authorities go to track down the IP that sent requests to another, your IP will be the one listed on that request with no ability to trace back what IP actually sent the request so it will be difficult to not pin you for whatever was accessed.
  - anon____ 3y ago
    This is true and already reality, no need for hypotheticals. There are exit nodes serving child porn right now, yet, the operators are not prosecuted. The child porn traffickers and other problematic users are all on Tor already. With the growing number of users their proportion will only decline.
    - chx 3y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36837273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36837273 are you sure they are not prosecuted
    - chx 3y ago
      > With the growing number of users their proportion will only decline. [citation needed]
      - anon____ 3y ago
        My only assumption that would need citation (that I cannot give, I admit) is that currently the proportion of shady users is much higher on Tor than on the general Internet. From here, it's pure and simple logic: as more users transition to Tor (asymptotically all of them), this proportion can only decrease.
        chx 3y ago
        1. there's no clear indication whether the Tor userbase grows. Indeed, I would suspect the constant mobile is a hindrance 2. There's no clear indication in which direction the online CP people grow. They can be more or less over time. I am unaware of any studies because it's obviously extremely hard to measure.
  - LinuxBender 3y ago
    You don't get to choose what flows through your exit node. This is why it is important to bookmark ExoneraTor [1] so that one can prove the IP in question is/was a Tor exit node accepting that it would still be a PITA to deal with boots-on-neck and legal fallout. That said one could block some of the known illegal sites via DNS and IP null routing on the exit node at the risk of the Tor network flagging it as a malicious exit node. [1] - https://support.torproject.org/glossary/exonerator/ https://support.torproject.org/glossary/exonerator/
hiatus 3y ago
How do exit nodes factor in? This seems to operate like hidden services thus no exit nodes needed.
- holmesworcester 3y ago
  (Quiet dev here.) Correct. Quiet traffic does not use Tor exit nodes, though we might use them someday, e.g. for fetching preview metadata when you post a link.
- chx 3y ago
  This was a comment about the general normalization of Tor.
  - hiatus 3y ago
    A broadly used application that requires tor for everyday use would be beneficial for the general normalization of tor. How would many people using quiet be anything but a step in the direction of general normalization of tor?

holmesworcester 3y ago

(Quiet founder here) We already support Tor financially and will probably also run relays someday! Quiet is a founding member of Tor's Onion Services Resource Coalition, which started in response to last year's DDoS against the Tor network, which affected onion service connection times. Alongside a small circle of other affected products we helped Tor raise enough to hire ~2 full-time engineers to work on onion service reliability, which had been a bit underfunded because onion services only represent a small share of Tor's existing usage. See: https://blog.torproject.org/tor-network-ddos-attack/ https://blog.torproject.org/tor-network-ddos-attack/

anon____ 3y ago
Thanks for addressing this, this is great to hear!