6 ms·

I think most people operate under the presumption that both parties are acting in good faith. Obviously, there are instances where that isn't true. Choppy econo

by zucked 3y ago

I think most people operate under the presumption that both parties are acting in good faith. Obviously, there are instances where that isn't true. Choppy economic conditions lead to both sides of the table bending or even breaking norms. I tend to put stock in giving two weeks of notice as I think it's polite. That being said, I've never had the rug pulled on me, either.

colordrops 3y ago
Companies never give anyone 2 weeks notice. They do not deserve it, and no one should give it, unless they have passion about the team and project they are leaving, and even then they should just wrap that up before giving notice.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- indecisive_user 3y ago
  Most large companies that do layoffs give over a month of notice+severance. Perhaps they're not required to, but to be given less than a 2 week heads up with no severance is pretty rare.
  - gymbeaux 3y ago
    How large? I don't think Allstate does this and they're Fortune 100. There were layoffs/a reorg back in 2018 in at least Allstate Benefits division but I don't think anyone got severance. I think everyone with more than X years of service was automatically not considered for severance. I know there are many former coworkers who are still there who certainly aren't still there because of their talent. Age is the only factor that comes to mind.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  That's just... Not even remotely true in my neck of the woods. Everywhere I worked at: - if individual is not performing, people spend months trying to help them gear up before even considering laying them off - if large layoffs are happening, there's time and severance. Even the ones we see in the news and perceived as sudden and unfair, the notification may be unexpected, but you're rarely laid off effective tomorrow.
  - Apocryphon 3y ago
    Wrong on the large layoffs point. Plenty of them occurred with no warning this year. And often with little to no justification, not only to the individuals let go but even simply from a business rationale.
    - lsaferite 3y ago
      Them: > in my neck of the woods. > Everywhere I worked at You: > Wrong How can you tell them they are wrong in _their_ experiences?
      - Apocryphon 3y ago
        Because their experiences are not reflective of larger industry trends.
        lsaferite 3y ago
        They didn't claim their experience was universal. They explicitly qualified their statement. So, you said they were wrong in _their_ experiences, which is calling them a liar and a bad interaction overall. If you'd simply replied that their experience perhaps wasn't indicative of the industry as a whole, _then_ you would have contributed something meaningful to the conversation.
  - gymbeaux 3y ago
    There's one's own experience, and then there's empirical data. Your comment isn't adding any value to this discussion because it's just one in a sea of hundreds of millions. Hell what about that mortgage company where people found out they were laid off because they couldn't log in to their fucking laptops?
    - fragmede 3y ago
      Mortgage company? Shit, that's how some people at Google found out they were laid off.
- aetherson 3y ago
  Meta's layoffs: 16 weeks severance + 2 weeks per year employed. https://about.fb.com/news/2022/11/mark-zuckerberg-layoff-message-to-employees/ https://about.fb.com/news/2022/11/mark-zuckerberg-layoff-mes... Google's layoffs: 16 weeks severance + 2 weeks per year employed + accelerate 16 weeks GSU vesting. https://blog.google/inside-google/message-ceo/january-update/ https://blog.google/inside-google/message-ceo/january-update... Amazon retail workers: 60 days of employment in which they aren't expected to come to work. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/20/google-amazon-microsoft-meta-twitter-severance-packages-compared.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/20/google-amazon-microsoft-meta... Etc. The idea that companies would "never give anyone 2 weeks notice" is deeply unconnected from reality.
  - gymbeaux 3y ago
    I'm not sure that's the norm though. FAANG is typically outlier for X Y Z... I would guess that something like 90% of companies don't do severance. Hell, 16 weeks plus 2 weeks per year of tenure is GENEROUS. I'm honestly not sure why they are doing that, unless it isn't voluntary (e.g. some law in CA). The idea that companies would never give anyone 2 weeks notice is probably closer to reality than the inverse of that assertion.
    - doktorhladnjak 3y ago
      WARN requires certain employers in most circumstances to give 60 days notice or pay at least 60 days of severance when laying off
    - hobofan 3y ago
      > Hell, 16 weeks plus 2 weeks per year of tenure is GENEROUS. You call it generous, Germany calls it the law (depending on tenure, with some other European countries having a similar timeframe), and somehow non-FAANG non-tech companies are also able to stomach it. This is obviously very influenced by a very high demand for stability in Germany, but I also find it crazy how little people in other countries expect from their employers.
      - 3y ago
- j-bos 3y ago
  Sometimes the boss gives a wink and a nudge though
- hef19898 3y ago
  It is kind of funny, from the other side of the pond, that as soon as lay offs start, the loose labour protection laws in the US seem to be less cool. I remeber when people complained that the long notice peruods in Europe as such a pain for start-ups and employees alike. See how the perspective changes when your own paycheck is on the line.
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    On the other hand when you get unemployment in the US you are still taking home more than a European.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      On the other, other hand, as a European, your kids don't have to go through active shooter training at or fear to be killed there. One thing people, and it seems this is a problem among the higher paid HN espcially but not exclusively, is tgat money is not everything. And comparing life quality based on how much money someone has is quite frankly pretty sad. And something the truely rich couldn't care less about. Oh, and I forgot, us poor underpaid Europeans tend not to have student debt in any shape or form. Also something to consider.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        The flak is always thickest when you are over the target.
    - manfre 3y ago
      Next time you leave a job, look closer at the COBRA documents for what it would cost to continue the healthcare. Thankfully, you can roll the dice and opt-in retroactively for a month or so. As some one in the US, I'd rather have the EU safety nets compared to the US unemployment rate.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

by zucked 3y ago

colordrops 3y ago

Companies never give anyone 2 weeks notice. They do not deserve it, and no one should give it, unless they have passion about the team and project they are leaving, and even then they should just wrap that up before giving notice.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
indecisive_user 3y ago
Most large companies that do layoffs give over a month of notice+severance. Perhaps they're not required to, but to be given less than a 2 week heads up with no severance is pretty rare.
- gymbeaux 3y ago
  How large? I don't think Allstate does this and they're Fortune 100. There were layoffs/a reorg back in 2018 in at least Allstate Benefits division but I don't think anyone got severance. I think everyone with more than X years of service was automatically not considered for severance. I know there are many former coworkers who are still there who certainly aren't still there because of their talent. Age is the only factor that comes to mind.
NikolaNovak 3y ago
That's just... Not even remotely true in my neck of the woods. Everywhere I worked at: - if individual is not performing, people spend months trying to help them gear up before even considering laying them off - if large layoffs are happening, there's time and severance. Even the ones we see in the news and perceived as sudden and unfair, the notification may be unexpected, but you're rarely laid off effective tomorrow.
- Apocryphon 3y ago
  Wrong on the large layoffs point. Plenty of them occurred with no warning this year. And often with little to no justification, not only to the individuals let go but even simply from a business rationale.
  - lsaferite 3y ago
    Them: > in my neck of the woods. > Everywhere I worked at You: > Wrong How can you tell them they are wrong in _their_ experiences?
    - Apocryphon 3y ago
      Because their experiences are not reflective of larger industry trends.
      - lsaferite 3y ago
        They didn't claim their experience was universal. They explicitly qualified their statement. So, you said they were wrong in _their_ experiences, which is calling them a liar and a bad interaction overall. If you'd simply replied that their experience perhaps wasn't indicative of the industry as a whole, _then_ you would have contributed something meaningful to the conversation.
- gymbeaux 3y ago
  There's one's own experience, and then there's empirical data. Your comment isn't adding any value to this discussion because it's just one in a sea of hundreds of millions. Hell what about that mortgage company where people found out they were laid off because they couldn't log in to their fucking laptops?
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Mortgage company? Shit, that's how some people at Google found out they were laid off.
aetherson 3y ago
Meta's layoffs: 16 weeks severance + 2 weeks per year employed. https://about.fb.com/news/2022/11/mark-zuckerberg-layoff-message-to-employees/ https://about.fb.com/news/2022/11/mark-zuckerberg-layoff-mes... Google's layoffs: 16 weeks severance + 2 weeks per year employed + accelerate 16 weeks GSU vesting. https://blog.google/inside-google/message-ceo/january-update/ https://blog.google/inside-google/message-ceo/january-update... Amazon retail workers: 60 days of employment in which they aren't expected to come to work. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/20/google-amazon-microsoft-meta-twitter-severance-packages-compared.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/20/google-amazon-microsoft-meta... Etc. The idea that companies would "never give anyone 2 weeks notice" is deeply unconnected from reality.
- gymbeaux 3y ago
  I'm not sure that's the norm though. FAANG is typically outlier for X Y Z... I would guess that something like 90% of companies don't do severance. Hell, 16 weeks plus 2 weeks per year of tenure is GENEROUS. I'm honestly not sure why they are doing that, unless it isn't voluntary (e.g. some law in CA). The idea that companies would never give anyone 2 weeks notice is probably closer to reality than the inverse of that assertion.
  - doktorhladnjak 3y ago
    WARN requires certain employers in most circumstances to give 60 days notice or pay at least 60 days of severance when laying off
  - hobofan 3y ago
    > Hell, 16 weeks plus 2 weeks per year of tenure is GENEROUS. You call it generous, Germany calls it the law (depending on tenure, with some other European countries having a similar timeframe), and somehow non-FAANG non-tech companies are also able to stomach it. This is obviously very influenced by a very high demand for stability in Germany, but I also find it crazy how little people in other countries expect from their employers.
    - 3y ago
j-bos 3y ago
Sometimes the boss gives a wink and a nudge though
hef19898 3y ago
It is kind of funny, from the other side of the pond, that as soon as lay offs start, the loose labour protection laws in the US seem to be less cool. I remeber when people complained that the long notice peruods in Europe as such a pain for start-ups and employees alike. See how the perspective changes when your own paycheck is on the line.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  On the other hand when you get unemployment in the US you are still taking home more than a European.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    On the other, other hand, as a European, your kids don't have to go through active shooter training at or fear to be killed there. One thing people, and it seems this is a problem among the higher paid HN espcially but not exclusively, is tgat money is not everything. And comparing life quality based on how much money someone has is quite frankly pretty sad. And something the truely rich couldn't care less about. Oh, and I forgot, us poor underpaid Europeans tend not to have student debt in any shape or form. Also something to consider.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      The flak is always thickest when you are over the target.
  - manfre 3y ago
    Next time you leave a job, look closer at the COBRA documents for what it would cost to continue the healthcare. Thankfully, you can roll the dice and opt-in retroactively for a month or so. As some one in the US, I'd rather have the EU safety nets compared to the US unemployment rate.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]