8 ms·

Have you lived near where they celebrate J’Ouvert? I used to live in that part of Brooklyn for 10 years and the festival always incited crime and violence in ou

Have you lived near where they celebrate J’Ouvert? I used to live in that part of Brooklyn for 10 years and the festival always incited crime and violence in our immediate area. I’m not saying drones are the answer, but it is not by any means a totally harmless event. For those downvoting who don’t want to accept reality, below is an article from just a few days ago. It happens every year. https://www.amny.com/new-york/brooklyn/spate-of-violence-sullies-jouvert-and-west-indian-american-festivities-in-brooklyn-one-killed-cops/ https://www.amny.com/new-york/brooklyn/spate-of-violence-sul...

MrBuddyCasino 3y ago
Are those STOP guys the same currently being indicted on RICO charges?
couchand 3y ago
I was working a shift at the coop on Monday and was pleasantly surprised when two women in extravagantly oversized, feathered and sequined outfits came in on their way home from the parade. So yes, I do live in this community. I don't think anyone denies that there is often crime and violence in Flatbush, Brownsville, Crown Heights, and other neighborhoods around the parade route. In particular, it's a stretch to assume that everyone giving you downvotes "doesn't want to accept reality". For my part, I wonder about the most effective way to reduce incidences of violence in our community. I know that these are some of the neighborhoods that have systematically been denied investment, perhaps that has a part to play? Also, these neighborhoods have experienced the brunt of overpolicing in our community for quite a long time. Somehow I don't think that the answer is more police. I don't think the answer is normalizing this appalling and illegal move.
- confoundcofound 3y ago
  What alternatives do you propose other than enforcement? What sorts of investments do you believe will directly and effectively curb violence and crime? What does underinvestment have to do with J’Ouvert crime specifically?
  - couchand 3y ago
    I suggest that we work to bring about a world where policing is unneccessary, even unthinkable. I refuse to accept the premise that we must consider any individual event in isolation -- we are all connected and all of our struggles our connected. For this to work we have to start by taking a sober look at the history of the concentration of power under capitalism, and how the use of force by the police has repeatedly and systematically kept the masses under control. We have to analyze the true root causes of crime, and work to eliminate those forces. It is not only immorral, but simply impractical, to make any attempt to address broad social unrest solely at the point where symptoms arise.
    - confoundcofound 3y ago
      You’ve offered no specific or practical alternatives, just idealistic babble, and are yet calling for the scaling back of direct and actionable enforcement. People like you, the political climate you create, and the policies you vote for, are largely why our cities are devolving.
      - trinsic2 3y ago
        Agreed. There are legitimate reasons to have enforcement. The problem is the peace officer part has been divorced from the role. Getting rid of the role of a peace officer is not a good idea.
        nkjnlknlk 3y ago
        Enforcing peace (where peace is not defined solely by white landowners) has _never_ been the role of the police officer in America.
      - couchand 3y ago
        It's troubling that you seem to expect a succint answer to a huge and complex problem, and you immediately write off any ideas that ask you to think first. > our cities are devolving. Turn off fox news and visit any of them and you'll see that American cities today are experiencing a rennaissance.
Spivak 3y ago
You're being downvoted not because fights broke out at a parade but because you think such an event apparently justifies arbitrary levels of policing where the cops still don't actually do anything in the realm of preventing the harm rather than just cleaning it up. I've been in crowds where this kind of stuff happens, although to be fair never with a gun so maybe it's different, but the random people in the crowd jump into breaking up the fight way faster than the cops. My city, which is not exemplary by any means, after a fuckton of political backlash about the "policing" that happens at protests and parades switched to having a small group of unarmed cops specially trained in deescalation (which is mostly marketing but eh, sure) and comprised of almost entirely minorities, women, and older folks. They're not at all shy about this unit being visibly nonthreatening and they just walk with the people, sometimes joining them. We haven't had any "riots" ever since. It's allllllmost like the police had been instigating them, funny that.
- parineum 3y ago
  >cops still don't actually do anything in the realm of preventing the harm rather than just cleaning it up. That's their job. "Preventing harm" is acting _before_ crime happens. It's politicians and citizens job to prevent harm.
  - couchand 3y ago
    You seem to see through the deception, but most don't. The whole policing house of cards is built on the idea that they "stop crime". They don't really, as you point out. In general, they do a pretty terrible job cleaning up after crimes occur, too. The one thing that police consistently and effectively do is themselves act as a criminal organization outside the law. They cause destruction and mayhem regularly on very flimsy premises and see little to no oversight for it.
  - UncleMeat 3y ago
    Great. So cops are not actually achieving any goal of keeping people safe, since they fundamentally do not prevent harm.

MrBuddyCasino 3y ago

Are those STOP guys the same currently being indicted on RICO charges?

couchand 3y ago

I was working a shift at the coop on Monday and was pleasantly surprised when two women in extravagantly oversized, feathered and sequined outfits came in on their way home from the parade. So yes, I do live in this community. I don't think anyone denies that there is often crime and violence in Flatbush, Brownsville, Crown Heights, and other neighborhoods around the parade route. In particular, it's a stretch to assume that everyone giving you downvotes "doesn't want to accept reality". For my part, I wonder about the most effective way to reduce incidences of violence in our community. I know that these are some of the neighborhoods that have systematically been denied investment, perhaps that has a part to play? Also, these neighborhoods have experienced the brunt of overpolicing in our community for quite a long time. Somehow I don't think that the answer is more police. I don't think the answer is normalizing this appalling and illegal move.

confoundcofound 3y ago
What alternatives do you propose other than enforcement? What sorts of investments do you believe will directly and effectively curb violence and crime? What does underinvestment have to do with J’Ouvert crime specifically?
- couchand 3y ago
  I suggest that we work to bring about a world where policing is unneccessary, even unthinkable. I refuse to accept the premise that we must consider any individual event in isolation -- we are all connected and all of our struggles our connected. For this to work we have to start by taking a sober look at the history of the concentration of power under capitalism, and how the use of force by the police has repeatedly and systematically kept the masses under control. We have to analyze the true root causes of crime, and work to eliminate those forces. It is not only immorral, but simply impractical, to make any attempt to address broad social unrest solely at the point where symptoms arise.
  - confoundcofound 3y ago
    You’ve offered no specific or practical alternatives, just idealistic babble, and are yet calling for the scaling back of direct and actionable enforcement. People like you, the political climate you create, and the policies you vote for, are largely why our cities are devolving.
    - trinsic2 3y ago
      Agreed. There are legitimate reasons to have enforcement. The problem is the peace officer part has been divorced from the role. Getting rid of the role of a peace officer is not a good idea.
      - nkjnlknlk 3y ago
        Enforcing peace (where peace is not defined solely by white landowners) has _never_ been the role of the police officer in America.
    - couchand 3y ago
      It's troubling that you seem to expect a succint answer to a huge and complex problem, and you immediately write off any ideas that ask you to think first. > our cities are devolving. Turn off fox news and visit any of them and you'll see that American cities today are experiencing a rennaissance.

Spivak 3y ago

You're being downvoted not because fights broke out at a parade but because you think such an event apparently justifies arbitrary levels of policing where the cops still don't actually do anything in the realm of preventing the harm rather than just cleaning it up. I've been in crowds where this kind of stuff happens, although to be fair never with a gun so maybe it's different, but the random people in the crowd jump into breaking up the fight way faster than the cops. My city, which is not exemplary by any means, after a fuckton of political backlash about the "policing" that happens at protests and parades switched to having a small group of unarmed cops specially trained in deescalation (which is mostly marketing but eh, sure) and comprised of almost entirely minorities, women, and older folks. They're not at all shy about this unit being visibly nonthreatening and they just walk with the people, sometimes joining them. We haven't had any "riots" ever since. It's allllllmost like the police had been instigating them, funny that.

parineum 3y ago
>cops still don't actually do anything in the realm of preventing the harm rather than just cleaning it up. That's their job. "Preventing harm" is acting _before_ crime happens. It's politicians and citizens job to prevent harm.
- couchand 3y ago
  You seem to see through the deception, but most don't. The whole policing house of cards is built on the idea that they "stop crime". They don't really, as you point out. In general, they do a pretty terrible job cleaning up after crimes occur, too. The one thing that police consistently and effectively do is themselves act as a criminal organization outside the law. They cause destruction and mayhem regularly on very flimsy premises and see little to no oversight for it.
- UncleMeat 3y ago
  Great. So cops are not actually achieving any goal of keeping people safe, since they fundamentally do not prevent harm.