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A lot of the people making purchasing decisions to acquire products like Tailscale are in security departments and have a very low opinion of Mullvad (VPN of ch

A lot of the people making purchasing decisions to acquire products like Tailscale are in security departments and have a very low opinion of Mullvad (VPN of choice for all kinds of abusive/fraud/hacking traffic).

throwaway894345 3y ago
Why would this affect the security of someone adopting Tailscale? It's not like partnering with Mullvad makes it easier for hackers/fraudsters/etc to attack a Tailscale user. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I would assume that 'hackers/fraudsters trust it' probably means that they do a decent job of respecting privacy?
phpisthebest 3y ago
>>> and have a very low opinion of Mullvad We do? I have a high opinion of them, one of the few VPN services I would trust not to give in even to governmental pressure. I firmly believe they would shut down their service before the compromised user privacy. That is very commendable
- peddling-brink 3y ago
  Are you a CISO or otherwise have that purchasing power? I’ve found that CISO types hold opinions that are not usually met by ground floor or even middle management folks.
- sitzkrieg 3y ago
  i agree. meanwhile people are using vpns they saw advertised on youtube
nly 3y ago
A VPN that can block activity X by definition is monitoring you to decide whether you're doing activity X.
- mpalmer 3y ago
  Surely any solution worth using is going to be doing that on the client side in a way that's independently verifiable.
lannisterstark 3y ago
>(VPN of choice for all kinds of abusive/fraud/hacking traffic). This is a pretty bad take. With your logic anything pro-privacy like Signal/Matrix etc would also be "x of choice for abuse/fraud/hacking etc" and thus shouldn't be used.
OJFord 3y ago
What is the VPN service you think people (people on HN, say, not YouTube) have a high opinion of? Mozilla is rebadged Mullvad. Proton might be ok. Everything else (Nord, Avast, Express, ...) is YouTube sponsor trash, Mullvad's the gold standard afaik.
- ignoramous 3y ago
  Cloudflare Warp, WindScribe, and iVPN are decent. But given the ubiquity of DoH and the roll out of HTTP3/QUIC + Encrypted Client Hello, no VPN might serve just fine, too.

throwaway894345 3y ago

Why would this affect the security of someone adopting Tailscale? It's not like partnering with Mullvad makes it easier for hackers/fraudsters/etc to attack a Tailscale user. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I would assume that 'hackers/fraudsters trust it' probably means that they do a decent job of respecting privacy?

phpisthebest 3y ago

>>> and have a very low opinion of Mullvad We do? I have a high opinion of them, one of the few VPN services I would trust not to give in even to governmental pressure. I firmly believe they would shut down their service before the compromised user privacy. That is very commendable

peddling-brink 3y ago
Are you a CISO or otherwise have that purchasing power? I’ve found that CISO types hold opinions that are not usually met by ground floor or even middle management folks.
sitzkrieg 3y ago
i agree. meanwhile people are using vpns they saw advertised on youtube

nly 3y ago

A VPN that can block activity X by definition is monitoring you to decide whether you're doing activity X.

mpalmer 3y ago
Surely any solution worth using is going to be doing that on the client side in a way that's independently verifiable.

lannisterstark 3y ago

>(VPN of choice for all kinds of abusive/fraud/hacking traffic). This is a pretty bad take. With your logic anything pro-privacy like Signal/Matrix etc would also be "x of choice for abuse/fraud/hacking etc" and thus shouldn't be used.

OJFord 3y ago

What is the VPN service you think people (people on HN, say, not YouTube) have a high opinion of? Mozilla is rebadged Mullvad. Proton might be ok. Everything else (Nord, Avast, Express, ...) is YouTube sponsor trash, Mullvad's the gold standard afaik.

ignoramous 3y ago
Cloudflare Warp, WindScribe, and iVPN are decent. But given the ubiquity of DoH and the roll out of HTTP3/QUIC + Encrypted Client Hello, no VPN might serve just fine, too.